Kev Hunter
Member
The only difference between a rut and a groove is the depth
Posts: 608
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Post by Kev Hunter on Nov 14, 2015 15:29:52 GMT
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Post by williammcgregor on Nov 14, 2015 19:58:26 GMT
Sad news, he was superb as Alf Garnett
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Post by John Green on Nov 14, 2015 20:31:53 GMT
As a kid,I loved it that Alf Garnett was always so wrong.What it was,of course,was straw arguments set up and blown down.
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Post by richardwoods on Nov 14, 2015 21:15:31 GMT
Yeah, brilliant acting in a superb comedy. He will be sadly missed.
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Post by Patrick Coles on Nov 15, 2015 13:37:10 GMT
Unfortunately the sad news events of Friday have of course rather obscured the passing of Warren Mitchell - I've only seen it referred to on the 'moving news strap' on BBC and Sky News as opposed to a proper mention it would have otherwise got
Warren made 'Alf Garnett' a superb comedic figure - what might have been just a silly ignorant bigot we love to laugh at Warren made so much more - with Johnny Speight's skilled writing Warren made Alf a 'real' person, gave him a deeper side than just the "loud mouthed bigoted know all who knew b*gger all" !
- and besides being the figure we love to see shot down Warren's acting made Alf a TV character whom we could go from laughing at, wanting to 'shoot down' with ridicule and delight at his getting his 'cumuppence' (which Alf always got !)...to at times a man we pitied, even felt SORRY for, as besides his ignorance, bigotry, racism, loud mouthed buffoonery Alf was at heart a well meaning guy who had feelings which Warren's superb acting brought out making Alf a 'real person' - in a space of a few moments you would go from delight at Alf's downfall...to pity...to wanting to see him cheer up...then gleefully want to shoot him down again...etc - all as Alf was so brilliantly performed by Warren
BBC of course 'shun' 'Till Death Us Do Part' now - Alf's non PC language alone would TERRIFY those 'suits' and cause instant Executive heart attacks all round at the awfully 'correct' modern Beeb ! (so busy serving up modern unfunny shallow stereotyped caricature filled safe piffle called "comedy")
...so any TDUDP reruns on modern safe TV are presumably quite out of the question (the DVD sets of the 1972 & 1974 series are expensive now) ...even 'Steptoe' and 'Likely Lads' when rerun require a covering 'these reflect the humour of that time...' PC announcement in order to cover Beeb backs so Alf's rantings are not on at all...!
Thus we probably won't get a tribute from Alf's heyday, besides maybe a far 'tamer' later episode of 'In Sickness and in Health' featuring a toned down far more subdued elderly Alf
But Warren Mitchell's 'in his prime' sixties/early seventies ranting 'know all' characterisation of Alf was supreme and let's be honest we ALL knew a bloke just like that....
added to that Warren's long career - he's in a few episodes of both 'The Avengers' as a hapless but likeable Russian agent & 'The Saint' as Roger Moore's Italian taxi man pal the irrepressable 'Marco de Cheserie' (early b/w episodes; 'The Latin Touch' & 'King of The Beggars') plus had many other comedy roles in top shows - he's the irate bus driver Tony Hancock upsets in 'The Last Bus Home' radio episode of 'Hancock's Half Hour' !
All in all a glorious overall acting career (Radio, TV & in films too), and a unforgettable superb complex acting performance (with tons of 'on camera' continual dialogue) as an iconic sixties figure - the most outspoken clueless racist bigoted fool who nevertheless was underneath depicted as 'real person' with feelings, a character whom we all felt we 'knew' so well.... stand as testament to Warren Mitchell's fine acting ability and distinguished career.
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Post by John Green on Nov 15, 2015 13:59:21 GMT
The programme has to be seen in its historical context.Mitchell was echoing Enoch Powell's notion that immigration might lead to "rivers of blood" in our streets.Odd that this notion was being thumped down by Tony Blair's future father-in-law!
The "sad news" from Paris is about 130 dead and roughly 500 wounded.Some of the latter will never walk or see again.Some will be brain-damaged.It's possible that showing one of Alf's rants would have been impossible for the BBC without him seeming to be a Cassandra.
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Post by Patrick Coles on Nov 15, 2015 14:06:00 GMT
I think most people are well aware of what occurred in Paris and I don't think anybody was really expecting an instant BBC screening of Alf at the moment
there was FAR more to Alf Garnett than just Enoch Powell's notions re race, Alf reflected a century or more of British citizens 'knowing their place' etc and his own London area upbringing, Johnny Speight covered tons of historical ground with his depiction of Alf & his family.
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Post by John Green on Nov 15, 2015 15:22:43 GMT
I think most people are well aware of what occurred in Paris and I don't think anybody was really expecting an instant BBC screening of Alf at the moment there was FAR more to Alf Garnett than just Enoch Powell's notions re race, Alf reflected a century or more of British citizens 'knowing their place' etc and his own London area upbringing, Johnny Speight covered tons of historical ground with his depiction of Alf & his family. Certainly Alf as an aspirational,working-class Conservative,one of Disraeli's "angels in marble" is fascinating and touching.Despite this,at this time,the two notions of the effects of immigration e.g.Alf's versus his son-in-law's that it would be unproblematic provided it was accepted by the host country,are what dominate when it comes to discussions of the programme. What's happened in Paris is perhaps the largest loss of life in France since WWII. |
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Post by tombeveridge on Nov 15, 2015 20:43:17 GMT
Warren Mitchell and Johnny Speight's "Alf Garnett" was, IMHO, one of the more carefully textured of comedy creations. Speight brought the energy (god, the energy!) and vitriolic from his relationship with his father and Mitchell, the actor, showed a vulnerable human side below the prejudice and bigotry. Alf was a family man. He loved his wife (Dandy Nichols, for me, stole every scene) and he accepted his layabout "scouse" son-in-law into his home. He went to work every day and, by his lights, was God-fearing and honest. Warren Mitchell breathed life into this complex character, seemingly without effort, for 20-odd years, revealing his vulnerabilities and fears along with his loud-mouthed chauvinism. View an episode (choose any one of them) and see how much of the burden of dialogue is carried by Warren Mitchell. Compare him to "Love thy Neighbour's" Eddie Booth and see what perceptive scripting and skilled acting can provide (although Jack Smethurst did a good job with the material he was given).
As others have remarked, TDUSP may become a secret pleasure/vice, known to a dwindling few "oldies" like us because of the PC gang that now inhabit (and inhibit) the Beeb but, for us, Warren Mitchell will remain in our memories as a consummate actor whose skill with a phrase, a gesture, and a pause, from whom many of our foul-mouthed modern "talents" could learn volumes.
My condolences to his family.
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Post by John Green on Nov 15, 2015 23:09:43 GMT
Good one,Tom.I'd only add-having recently watched the first film again-how much I disliked the Alf-baiting,especially by Mrs.G!
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Post by Jeff Lewis on Nov 16, 2015 22:39:19 GMT
Slightly across topics but does the Warren Mitchell/Alf Garnett clip that inspired the Monkees "Randy Scouse Git" survive? I've seen many Monkee documentaries but I don't think I've anything that relates to "Til Death Do Us Part".
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Post by John Green on Nov 17, 2015 0:15:30 GMT
Slightly across topics but does the Warren Mitchell/Alf Garnett clip that inspired the Monkees "Randy Scouse Git" survive? I've seen many Monkee documentaries but I don't think I've anything that relates to "Til Death Do Us Part". Was there an actual clip,or was it just a recurrent phrase? I seem to remember the phrase being used quite a bit. I was watching the BBC News and Sky News channels on Friday night,and I don't recall seeing a mention of Children in Need,far less Warren Mitchell's death. |
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Post by Alan Scott on Nov 18, 2015 21:49:11 GMT
Slightly across topics but does the Warren Mitchell/Alf Garnett clip that inspired the Monkees "Randy Scouse Git" survive? I've seen many Monkee documentaries but I don't think I've anything that relates to "Til Death Do Us Part". Mark Ward's excellent book A Family At War tries to establish which episode Dolenz actually saw. He even managed to track down when he was in the UK before the song was recorded and listed the episodes he could have seen. The phrase is not used in any of these shows but is used in Sex Before Marriage and A Woman's Place Is In The Home. Ward raises the possibility that he could also have seen a clip of these shows during his visit, possibly on Late Night Line Up. Only a short clip remains of Sex Before Marriage but audios of both episodes can be found on You Tube. I grew up watching In Sickness and In Health and having watched most of the surviving Till Death Us Do Part episodes I would agree that it is tame in comparison. However there are still some fine comedic moments(especially in the episodes featuring the marvellous Patricia Hayes and Irene Handl) and also some pathos which wasn't evident in the original show e.g. Else's funeral and the episode where Alf is trying to make his own Sunday lunch. |
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Post by tombeveridge on Nov 19, 2015 1:25:41 GMT
Like "silly moo" and Alf's East London "blahddy", "randy Scouse git" was a phrase that was just "in the air" at the time. I doubt that Dolenz took much opportunity to sit and watch Brit-coms on his visit (trip??), even TDUDP. My guess is he heard the expression a couple of times in conversation and the seeds of a song were sown from that.
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Post by Richard Marple on Nov 19, 2015 13:27:38 GMT
It's interesting that both Hancock's Half Hour & Till Death Do Us Part both featured an episode about giving blood, & regarded as one of the best.
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