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Post by richardwoods on Oct 12, 2015 17:15:51 GMT
Never thought I would find myself saying this, as at the time I couldn't understand the negative reaction in rarified circles about some of the discussion on the forum of rumours relating to possible recovery of Web and Enemy.
Now it seems clear to me that this situation with Episode 3 was creating this tension, which is completely understandable. If there is a small chance that this episode could still be recovered, is this thread, interesting as it is, running the risk of being counter productive again?
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Post by John Green on Oct 12, 2015 17:21:20 GMT
Never thought I would find myself saying this, as at the time I couldn't understand the negative reaction in rarified circles about some of the discussion on the forum of rumours relating to possible recovery of Web and Enemy. Now it seems clear to me that this situation with Episode 3 was creating this tension, which is completely understandable. If there is a small chance that this episode could still be recovered, is this thread, interesting as it is, running the risk of being counter productive again? All the more reason to set up misleading threads to misdirect the naughty ones: http/www,searchheatsupinantarcti
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Post by Robbie Moubert on Oct 12, 2015 21:04:50 GMT
We need to find out who the "guy" referred to in the post is. Well, Philip Morris knows who "the guy" is so why do the rest of us need to be told? What do you plan to do with the information?
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Oct 12, 2015 22:57:24 GMT
We need to find out who the "guy" referred to in the post is. Well, Philip Morris knows who "the guy" is so why do the rest of us need to be told? What do you plan to do with the information? Attempt to recover Web of Fear part 3. And before you say, "what makes you think you can do better than PM?", that argument was being made 20 years ago about the likes of Ian Levine. If PM had listened to that then then we wouldn't have what we have now. I would definitely not wish to interfere with any better organised episode recovery attempts. However I am reading the latest revelations as PM effectively saying that he's done everything he can in this direction. If any more progress is going to be made with Web 3, it's going to be down to ordinary folk like us. IMVHO. More than happy to back off if someone tells me that the hunt for Web 3 hasn't been given up on. I think it has, though. Richard
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Post by Alex Weidmann on Oct 12, 2015 23:09:58 GMT
When the Web/Enemy find was revealed in late 2013, I recall PM said the publicity surrounding this had complicated negotiations for other missing episodes. We now know exactly which episode he was referring to, and I wonder if it may have been better if the Web/Enemy recovery had been kept secret to this day? Such a course of action may have improved the chances for Web 3 being tracked down, so the story could eventually be released in full. What do others think?
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Post by John Wall on Oct 12, 2015 23:13:44 GMT
It's now two years since EotW/WoF were, officially, revealed and almost three years since PM established that they existed. We now know bits and bobs of what's transpired wrt WoF3 - but without success. I'm not sure what more can be realistically done If money were the problem I'm sure that a decent amount could be easily, and quickly, crowdfunded.
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Post by travisrobinson on Oct 13, 2015 0:36:05 GMT
It's now two years since EotW/WoF were, officially, revealed and almost three years since PM established that they existed. We now know bits and bobs of what's transpired wrt WoF3 - but without success. I'm not sure what more can be realistically done If money were the problem I'm sure that a decent amount could be easily, and quickly, crowdfunded. Only problem there is it's kind of like a grade school dance and instead of boys and girls it's the BBC and these hypothetical collectors standing far apart and damned if you can get any of them to make the first move. They're both hesitant. The BBC will be loathe to establish the precedent for fear of future ransoms. What's the appropriate sum for Web 3? 50K? 100K? More? Whatever it is you can multiply that by 9 if DMP comes back. Now the great part of that would be every semi-pro treasure hunter in the world hunting because there's a million dollars out there. But is the BBC willing to let it's fans spend that much money to return it to the archives? Are their PR team excited to face the inevitable backlash among the minority that the BBC could have paid up and bought them? And so on. And that's just the Beeb. The collector is probably very hesitant to even admit they have it. Doctor Who fans never forget. They may be hesitant to try to stay anonymous going through the more, how should I put it, high profile Who return brokers like Ian or Phil. And our modern world is a blessing and a curse when it comes to less high profile like the fine folks here who procured ME's in the past with little more than copies of their own collection. Now most things are easily accessible online. I hate to be pessimistic but I can't see a great future with private collectors who already know what they have. I do think we'll get a few more future returns from collectors but likely from the type who have no idea that they possess missing Doctor Who (if they even realize they own Doctor Who) and jump at the chance to grab 15 minutes of fame by being awesome. *fingers crossed*
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Post by George D on Oct 13, 2015 4:45:27 GMT
For a station manager in Nigeria, perhaps 1000.00 would be a small fortune.
Unlike many, I am a firm believer that those who help in the recovery of missing Dr who episodes should be compensated for their part if needed
the value of the time spent looking for them is monstrous compared to a few pounds to the finder.
I'm sure the BBC made a ton off those shows. And I would think those who worked on the DVD, and iTunes site got compensated also.
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Post by John Green on Oct 13, 2015 8:30:19 GMT
For a station manager in Nigeria, perhaps 1000.00 would be a small fortune. Unlike many, I am a firm believer that those who help in the recovery of missing Dr who episodes should be compensated for their part if needed the value of the time spent looking for them is monstrous compared to a few pounds to the finder. I'm sure the BBC made a ton off those shows. And I would think those who worked on the DVD, and iTunes site got compensated also. You have to be careful not to offend people. I get a Carer's Allowance of £62 for the 70 hours a week I spend looking after my handicapped sons and can't work.The council decided four years ago that the money is intended for food etc. for my son,and I shouldn't receive any of it.I got another angry message from Tristrum Hunt's (my MP's) office yesterday about what a dastard I am for wanting a wage for caring for my own children."I refuse to communicate with you any more on the matter,Mr.Green". Hunt is on £74,000 per year,plus expenses,though he only works part-time as an MP.Bosses at the BBC are on more.
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Richard Develyn
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Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
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Post by Richard Develyn on Oct 13, 2015 8:58:17 GMT
I think that if it was about money we would have heard by now.
The value of Web 3 is decreasing with time, and I think it will decrease considerably if significant more finds are made. You only hold on to stuff if you feel pretty sure the value is going to go up, and if I had money to invest I can think of much better places to put it than in a Doctor Who episode.
At the end of the day, Web 3 has only been missing for 2 years as opposed to 40. We have had many conversations on these forums in the past about hunting for missing episodes. This is our best lead - so why don't we try to put our brains together a bit.
If we do succeed in finding it, we can worry about what we need to do next then.
Richard
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Oct 13, 2015 9:22:46 GMT
What I don't quite get is, even in Nigeria, if you steal from your employer, you're in for some serious trouble. If you have a job there I imagine you want to keep it. Couldn't the suspect's boss tell him to bring that film can, pronto? Well, apparently not. Perhaps returning it would've been taken as an admission of guilt.
Even so, if it's stolen, then that weakens the "owner's" position at any negotiation table. So I don't think whoever has it now is planning on selling it. Three options: 1. Someone bought it more or less in good faith, not totally knowing the story at the time. 2. The thief in Nigeria still has it because he couldn't sell it and didn't dare to return it. 3. Someone bought it for a private collection and is now reading this, gloating like a sad little weasel, feeling powerful, and possibly touching himself.
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Richard Develyn
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Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Oct 13, 2015 11:10:21 GMT
What I don't quite get is, even in Nigeria, if you steal from your employer, you're in for some serious trouble. If you have a job there I imagine you want to keep it. Couldn't the suspect's boss tell him to bring that film can, pronto? Well, apparently not. Perhaps returning it would've been taken as an admission of guilt. Even so, if it's stolen, then that weakens the "owner's" position at any negotiation table. So I don't think whoever has it now is planning on selling it. Three options: 1. Someone bought it more or less in good faith, not totally knowing the story at the time. 2. The thief in Nigeria still has it because he couldn't sell it and didn't dare to return it. 3. Someone bought it for a private collection and is now reading this, gloating like a sad little weasel, feeling powerful, and possibly touching himself. My money's on (2), and I reckon they read this forum. Richard
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Post by Robert Lia on Oct 14, 2015 0:43:51 GMT
The funny thing about this is if (2) is correct the thief may have it and the buyer might have backed out at the last minute. The seller would be in an awkward position to attempt to have it "turn up" suddenly and claim that it was misfiled in another room at the TV station.
If its (3) then what good is having something that you cant tell any one including your closest friend because it will eventually leak out. You would have to keep it a secret for a good 10 or 15 years to allow for the fuss to totally die down (if it ever does).
So I also go with (2)
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Post by johnbarbour on Oct 14, 2015 7:34:56 GMT
It would be nice to think that the individual who "acquired" the tape reads this forum and if he does then insults won't help and I'd rather swallow my indignation and see episode 3 safely join the recovered 5. So if the individual - who has let's face it, done nothing much different from anyone who has ever 'acquired" junked TV tapes (and yes I know that the Jos tapes weren't junked but they were meant to have been) - does read this forum I'm sure that with some of the contacts we have that some kind of safe handover could be arranged with suitable expenses reimbursed by presumably the BBC commercial people. or TIEA as well as anonymity guaranteed. However I'm not at all sure that the individual will be tracking any Dr Who forum as a regular part of his life unless like us he is a fan. So, in the off-chance that he is reading this forum let's invite him to join it and become a hero by returning the tape! I think its safe return along with any other tape he might have acquired would guarantee a quick forgive and forget.
I'm pretty sure though that Phil & Co will have made all possible overtures already so what my limp proposal may trigger is probably not a great deal, but who knows with the passing of Time?
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Richard Develyn
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Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
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Post by Richard Develyn on Oct 14, 2015 9:28:05 GMT
Well, in my opinion, and for what it's worth, Web 3 hasn't been stolen. It's "mislaid" somewhere in the TV station.
One person, who probably reads this forum, might just happen to know where it is.
Since it belongs to the TV station, however, that person isn't going to be able to do anything with it that is in any way dishonest because they would be putting their job at risk, and it would be far too easy for an illegal sale to be traced back to them.
So right now I think we have a bit of an impasse.
Richard
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