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Post by John W King on Nov 25, 2014 20:55:13 GMT
I found this programme fascinating. I was born in 1954 and by the time I reached the 1970s realised I was in one of major minority groups. I was and still am gay. The general public appear to have forgotten how vilified we were in the media, particularly the press. However I strongly believe you have to be able to laugh at yourself. I loved and still love Mr Humphreys and Are You Being Served. Frankie Howerd has always been my supreme comedy hero. I have always enjoyed camp humour, in your end - no! And that type of laughter. I rarely find it offensive even now. Drama was another kettle of fish when in the 70s gays tended to be treated with kid gloves and a humourless earnestness. Although such programmes often meant well, at the time they were and still are cringe making. Sadly in the 60s and 70s I actually enjoyed the Black and White Minstrels. It took me a long time to realise that they might cause offence. I grew up owning a (sorry) "gollywog" who was my favourite toy. I could never understand homophobia nor racialism nor sexism. We are all humans. Although these programmes only touched the surface of very deep issues they were a healthy reminder of past attitudes. As Roy Hudd sagely said "You cannot airbrush history". Nor should we (BBC please take note, re. Jimmy Saville, Rolf Harris, Gary Glitter etc. If we were to gradually go further back in history you would see attitudes to different things. 1930s - anti-semitism, anti-socialism, fascism 1890s - colonialism, British Empire, anti-Chinese Before that strong religious attitudes. As others have said - in 2014 we are not neccessarily more enlightened - we have moved the goal points and view attitudes from a different view point. There are no male/male couples on Strictly Come Dancing which could still be viewed as sexist. Are there any black game show hosts? Again, as some one said, what will we make of 2010s programmes in 2050? I strongly feel there should be more of this type of programme to give a richer picture of changing attitudes. These currently offensive programmes (B&W Minstrels, Love Thy Neighbour, It ain't Half Hot Mum,) must not be hidden away , but viewed regularly but put into prrspective. If Hitler had won the war many of these programmes would never have been made. A future Hitler would have them destroyed. Can't wait for a similar series looking at the 1980s with Thatcher - a potential Hitler who was homophobic, probably racist and in a curious way, sexist. She didn't do a bundle for the women's cause really. Finally what this type of programme tells us is we must continue to search for all missing television, and, perhaps more importanly have open access to past television so they can never be lost again.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 8:52:33 GMT
This thread has really produced some interesting and reflective comments. Keep 'em coming, folks!
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Post by Tony Walshaw on Nov 26, 2014 9:28:30 GMT
As Greg H says above, the current generation have 'allowed an unholy alliance between government and corporations to happen without hardly a fuss'. I think that we have gone back to the 1950s in entertainment. Choreographed and corporate, dictated in a 'we know best' manner. Even so-called 'radical' rock stars are hand-picked good-lookers, functioning within the confines of a system. It is very sanitised. I am also concerned about the media deciding what we should listen to. On another forum, a member posted about successfully getting her oldies played on a radio station. She had picked famous artists, but lesser-known singles or album tracks from their catalogues. She did eventually get her 'choices' played....but her Beatles track emerged as 'Hey Jude', and her Abba became....wait for it....'Dancing Queen'. Great records, but in the eyes of modern programmers they seem to be amongst the only songs these artists ever recorded. We should 'Get Back' to the past and send out an 'S.O.S.'.... In this respect, to my ears the musical decisions on Radio 2 are now being taken by marketing people recruited from cheesy local radio. It has become truly awful of late. Even seasoned presenters like Chris Evans and Steve Wright (albeit themselves not perfect) must baulk at some of the things they have to play.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 11:14:02 GMT
Yes, the effects of this 'unholy alliance' are something which have been slipping in via the back door for some time without many people noticing. But society is tightening its restrictions on many things now. Subtle oppression is far more tangible now than back in the '70s, for instance, which of course relates to the situation with both the current music scene and the state of television (amongst many other things). It seems a few basic freedoms have been granted - e.g. we're now seen to be more liberal towards diversity in sexuality and race than we were in the '60s and '70s - even though it seems as if it's only because such sections of society translate as votes for politicians, rather than tolerance being with us out of any true liberal / humanitarian principles.
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Post by Richard Marple on Nov 26, 2014 13:21:11 GMT
I've often noticed some radio stations only play the better known songs by an artist unless they have a featured album & might be daring enough to choose a lesser known track.
Almost every times I buy a single artist album I'll find a hidden gem, even when it was a hit back in the day.
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Post by Alan Scott on Nov 26, 2014 21:13:45 GMT
I remembering listening to a Country Music show on my local radio station a couple of years back. The presenter announced he had a request for a particular song by Johnny Cash. I can't remember exactly which one but it wasn't Hurt or any of the Rick Rubin produced material. He then said "We don't have that one but here's one we hope you'll like." I immediately thought "It'll be Ring of Fire." Sure enough, that's what he played.
Maybe 15-20 years ago I would have accepted that but "We don't have that one" is a pretty lame excuse for a radio station in this day and age.
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Post by Tony Walshaw on Nov 28, 2014 9:05:51 GMT
We hear country music in the UK mainstream like never before. Most of it goes 'in one ear, and out of the other' to the seasoned music fan.
It has been decided that artists like Taylor Swift are 'central' to our culture, with their 'lifestyle' songs. The success of Ms Swift is the front gloss on the creeping rot beneath.
In between these songs, we have constant references to 'Strictly Come Dancing at the weekend....' In the 70s, did Radio 1 rant on endlessly about next Saturday's edition of the' Generation Game'?
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Post by John Green on Nov 28, 2014 9:38:32 GMT
I remembering listening to a Country Music show on my local radio station a couple of years back. The presenter announced he had a request for a particular song by Johnny Cash. I can't remember exactly which one but it wasn't Hurt or any of the Rick Rubin produced material. He then said "We don't have that one but here's one we hope you'll like." I immediately thought "It'll be Ring of Fire." Sure enough, that's what he played. Maybe 15-20 years ago I would have accepted that but "We don't have that one" is a pretty lame excuse for a radio station in this day and age. One day,maybe they'll astonish us by playing one of the Dylan/Cash duets!
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Post by Nigel Lees on Nov 28, 2014 11:43:18 GMT
As Laurence pointed out an interesting thread! I did not see the programme in question but from Peter Stirling’s opening comment (and possibly the best of the thread) I can gauge exactly what the show was like having seen similar in the past, good job really as I’d have probably put my foot through the tele. We’ve got to the stage where ‘educated’ PC loony luvvies who were born in the 60s and 70s are in positions now to both make these television ‘reflectives’ on that era and comment on it in such programmes, and spill their fashionable piffle to an audience often stupid enough to take it all in. I was somewhat infuriated by Marie Griffiths opening missive, why the hell should potential repeats of ‘Q’, ‘It Ain’t Half Hot Mum’ and the like be censored or cut?! The old adage, if you don’t like it switch off, to tamper with history (especially as wonderfully hilarious as Milligan’s ‘Q’) is not excusable, just to please our so called ‘enlightened’ attitudes today. I’m not a B and W Minstrels fan but what the hell was wrong with it if it gave a lot of people entertainment, its only PC idiots who look for menace in their own shadow who freak out about such things. Censorship is already happening with old TV, not too long back I watched a 60s Steptoe on Gold, a channel I largely avoid as its run by people with the programming imagination of a tin of pilchards, despite the impeccability of some of its shows (Porridge, Fawlty Towers etc). In the said episode Harold was talking to his dad about an Italian I think, to which his dad’s answer was “Oh a Wop”. Funny but Gold had actually removed ‘Wop’ from the soundtrack and later in the episode – when Harold and Albert were outside the cinema where ‘Nudes Of 1964’ was postered, the idiots at Gold had obscured the ladies’ chests on the poster. And this was shown in the evening. Who the HELL do they think they are making their own decisions on such things? I’d love to take over that channel and fire those responsible immediately! God that would be fun. Similarly, Gold again, the episode of Frank Spencer when he emerges from the vat of tar on the road and encounters an Asian family, that was cut to bits the last time I saw it and he said nothing ‘offensive’ whatsoever – except of course in the minds of the ‘enlightened’ fools who cut it. Re the most recent points about radio playlists, started by Tony Walshaw (who’s obviously on the ball). I think with ‘oldies’ stations it’s plainly and simply the fact they are terrified of playing anything bar the most obvious oldies for fear of listeners switching off or moving to another channel. My ex girlfriend used to stick Gold radio on Sunday’s for background for a while, I remember distinctly ‘Jesamine’ by the Casuals being played 4 Sunday’s in a row! Great tune but come on! And then I recoiled at Dean Martin on his Sunday night show saying once, “we want your requests for any 60s record as long as it charted”. BRAINDEAD! As if to say non chart records were not worthy of inclusion, God how shortsighted. But as with most entertainment I’m afraid, they aim to please the masses. The past gets better and the present gets worse...
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Post by Richard Marple on Nov 28, 2014 13:50:17 GMT
Anyone else slipped through a 40 year time warp?
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Post by Patrick Coles on Nov 28, 2014 14:24:27 GMT
Nigel is spot on re the points he makes...and notably re the censorship in Steptoe & Son
The censorship is totally uneven too ! - in the episode; 'And So To Bed' Albert calls the gay salesman a 'Po*f' (I ought to put it in full but those 'Brain Police' Frank Zappa warned about years ago might get me....)
- UK Gold/Drama/whatever edit out Albert saying: 'He's a po*f' as they leave the showroom BUT in 'Any Old Iron ?' where Richard Hurdall superbly plays a rather lonely if well educated art loving gay chap taken with Harold the word 'po*f' is spoken a good few times...and is LEFT IN !
don't know about now but in the much loved & often rerun Fawlty Towers the old major used the word 'w*gs'(gasp!!) and that always was left in (until recently at least)
- so whose doing the editing ?
in the Steptoe episode; 'Porn Yesterday' after seeing Albert's backside the vicar's wife refers to the natives she saw in their missionary days; 'some of those chaps were built like...' her husband coughs to quickly stop her recollection !! (but that whole sequence gets CHOPPED right out now !)
I saw 'Steptoe A La Carte' where the offending words were silenced out - I thought the episode's soundtrack had gone wrong for a moment ! plus in 'Sunday For Seven Days' the tiny glimpse of ladies breasts in the ad for; 'Nudes of 1964' (!) at the cinema next door are indeed 'blurred out' !
Years ago at work we had an Indian lady colleague - she & her husband both LOVED 'It Ain't Half Hot Mum', she told us they knew people who were just like that back home & she said how EVERYONE in the show, both Indian & British - English, Welsh, Scottish, and various classes from common to 'Huniversity Heducated' types etc.. were EACH having the 'mickey' gently taken out of their them...
it certainly did NOT offend them in any way (Far more British folk were poked fun of in the show overall than anyone in the show...while even Ed Bishop once turned up as a 'typical' American film producer guy when a American film was being shot, with a clueless American 'star' actor featured !)
so if Indian people enjoyed the show, clearly saw the humour (which was aimed at everyone, but was gently done, not mocking or 'nasty' or 'in ya face' unlike some 'modern PC' humour often is) and were amused & entertained by it - then just WHO are these (always 'faceless') Brain Police people who see fit to censor or REFUSE to allow the rest of us to watch (or not) and judge for ourselves...??
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Post by John W King on Nov 29, 2014 0:15:27 GMT
Sorry but I personally do not find terms like poof, iron hoof, queer etc. offensive particularly when used in the context of old programmes like Steptoe, it ain't half hot etc. What I DO find deeply OFFENSIVE is some faceless person acting on my behalf and editing programmes to remove those terms WITHOUT asking representatives of the gay community. This is the sort of behaviour of a fascist regime trying to airbrush or alter history. On whose authority are these edits made? If you are a truly "enlightened" society you can see these programmes with out taking offensive because you understand, because you are enlightened. I can't speak for the "black" community but again I would rather programmes from the past were not edited. For many years of I avoided Love Thy Neighbour like the plague not because of the subject matter but because my recollections were that the programmes weren't funny. Earlier in the year I sat down and watched every episode. (The film is truly dire). Not the greatest of comedies but there were some laughs and some truly cringe making moments. If the terms like honky and sambo were edited out there would be little left. However, overall it was a veryclumsy attempt to show the stupidity of racism. Strangely in these enlightened times the DVDs have been for sale for many years in HMV. That presumably means that they sell steadily. What does that tell us? As for record playlists......censorship has acted in reverse and records that were forbidden to be broadcast at the time of release are now hailed as classics and often played - Sex Pistols God Save the Queen, Frankies Relax, Beatles a Day in the Life. Then huge hits that now are never played - Rolfs Two Little Boys, Sunarise etc., Gary Glitters Hits, If I had my finger on the censorship I would erradicate Strictly, X Factor, Jungle, all soaps, all sport. Totally wipe all tapes of those programmes - which all goes to show how dangerous censorship is in the hands of one person!
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Post by John Green on Nov 29, 2014 21:26:32 GMT
At first,I thought that the lyric to Dylan's 'Hurricane' ran "He had no idea what kind of ship was about to go down" which I thought was quite good,fitting in with the storm of the title.OK,the song's about boxer Rubin 'Hurricane' Carter,but still...Anyway,it was only when I heard the beep on the 45 version of the song that I realised that the noun wasn't "ship".A bit of self-defeating censorship!
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Post by Patrick Coles on Nov 30, 2014 10:33:43 GMT
A little off topic but in keeping with the censorship 'agenda' theme of this thread (and questioning WHO is doing it & why...?) - I watched a bit of the Croft & Perry show on BBC 2 last night (I had not planned to but I wanted to see 'Dad's Army' and it was on before so I watched it)
I assumed it would just be a 'tribute' - and old footage of interviews of the pair at various times, including very old b/w interviews, were in keeping with that idea however I noticed a recurring theme being 'plugged' throughout the 20 minutes or so I saw - a 'typewritten' message was put up, and it always seemed to relate to the 'Roles of women'!
I began to notice how endlessly the work of messrs C & P was related to how 'women' were depicted in each show....even stating 'It Ain't Half Hot Mum' was a success DESPITE not having any 'women' in it...!! (er what about Mrs. Waddilove-Evans ?)
time & time again any show, be it 'Dad's Army', 'Hi De Hi', 'You Rang M'Lord ?' was keenly examined for social portrayal and especially re how 'women' were depicted as if some kind of feminist agenda was being worked through...
I seem to recall those shows had other aspects to them, including ALOT re class distinction, and many MALE characters carefully depicted etc....but (to me at least) this tribute show seemed only to want to look at the depiction of the role of 'women' in society - repeatedly
Did anyone else see this this & notice such an angle to the programme ?
I must admit I got rather fed up having the same old message repeatedly driven home....
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Post by peterleslie on Nov 30, 2014 11:29:53 GMT
- tho' I didn't spot 'Are You Being Served ?' (maybe next week) - "Are You Being Served?" wasn't a Croft/Perry sitcom, so won't be referenced in this series.
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