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Post by Marie Griffiths on Nov 21, 2014 15:21:59 GMT
It was interesting that Nicolas Parsons filled in that he was totally against the Mink coat prize at the time, and Linda Bellingham was against her exploitation too. If Nicholas was so against that at the time, then why did he agree to do the job? I daresay the fee helped ease his conscience. We all have to put food on the table. Thankfully their outdated ideas made people turn off and the show was axed.
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Kev Hunter
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The only difference between a rut and a groove is the depth
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Post by Kev Hunter on Nov 21, 2014 15:34:00 GMT
We all have to put food on the table. Thankfully their outdated ideas made people turn off and the show was axed. Regarding the first point - we are all prostitutes, and everyone has their price. Obviously on Sale Of The Century it was a knock-down price. I'm not sure that it was the mink coats or the 'dolly birds' that made people turn off though.. it had probably run its course and viewers were just bored of sameold sameold after a while.
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Post by Patrick Coles on Nov 22, 2014 13:08:13 GMT
I do wonder what the people of say 2050 will make of 2014 attitudes and our much vaunted self acclaimed 'enlightened' so terribly correct attitudes...??
the apparent 'need' to distance ourselves from 1970 attitudes and pat ourselves so firmly on the back re how much BETTER and 'ENLIGHTENED we now are today makes me smile...
back in 1970 they were not pulling 1930's attitudes to bits, they might have found old ideas 'square' and of a 'bygone age' etc but no stuffy jumped up 'we are SO much better now' attitudes prevailed as far as I can recall
I do wonder what aspects of TODAY will be looked back on and seen as being so 'less than' in the decades to come, re laws, attitudes, Television rules etc...?
maybe the addiction to reality TV shows and Celeb obsession plus the general pompous righteousness of the media and it's support of 'mob rule' knee jerk reactions plus wealth based 'class distinction' etc that were so prevalent back in 2014 ....might in future years be looked back on with a very different attitudes by the future society ?
or of course by then NOBODY may dare to have an opinion of their own for FEAR of possibly upsetting the pre-set conditioned 'preferred' way of 'correct' thinking...
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Post by Sue Butcher on Nov 23, 2014 2:15:57 GMT
Modern television has an extremely high rubbish content. This can't be acknowledged by the people who make the rubbish, so they attack the easy targets, like low-brow Seventies sitcoms, and give themselves a pat on the back for being so sophisticated.
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Post by simoncurtis on Nov 23, 2014 3:14:36 GMT
In those days we didn't have a nation of brainwashed numbskulls on benefits... The 70s Forever!!
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Post by Greg H on Nov 23, 2014 8:50:53 GMT
In those days we didn't have a nation of brainwashed numbskulls on benefits... The 70s Forever!! I feel duty bound to point out that we don't actually have a nation of people on benefits in 2014 either. Such things only exist in the daily mail and similar rags. People who have a genuine need to be on benefits for health reasons are being cut off as we speak to fend for themselves. I haven't seen this documentary so I can't really comment. As for the 70s there are some attitudes that are honestly best left in the past, casual racism, sexism etc, but to attempt to rubbish an entire decade on an unrepresentative bias sample of it's media output is a pretty cynical and hackneyed way to fill a slot on the telly. But doubtless it will be regarded as absolute fact by anyone who watched it as it was after all on the telly and the telly don't lie. As someone speculated about how we will be viewed, I suspect that when 'our lot' are looked back upon by future generations we will be viewed as a bunch of people who were brainwashed by the media into blaming the wrong people for problems in the country and who allowed an unholy alliance between government and corporations to happen without hardly a fuss and let our healthcare be sold out so a few people could get rich off of the suffering that inevitably follows.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 10:28:12 GMT
I feel duty bound to point out that we don't actually have a nation of people on benefits in 2014 either. Such things only exist in the daily mail and similar rags. People who have a genuine need to be on benefits for health reasons are being cut off as we speak to fend for themselves. I haven't seen this documentary so I can't really comment. As for the 70s there are some attitudes that are honestly best left in the past, casual racism, sexism etc, but to attempt to rubbish an entire decade on an unrepresentative bias sample of it's media output is a pretty cynical and hackneyed way to fill a slot on the telly. But doubtless it will be regarded as absolute fact by anyone who watched it as it was after all on the telly and the telly don't lie. As someone speculated about how we will be viewed, I suspect that when 'our lot' are looked back upon by future generations we will be viewed as a bunch of people who were brainwashed by the media into blaming the wrong people for problems in the country and who allowed an unholy alliance between government and corporations to happen without hardly a fuss and let our healthcare be sold out so a few people could get rich off of the suffering that inevitably follows. Yes, I couldn't agree more. When people sneer at the so-called uncivilised past, they forget what is actually happening to our benefits and health care system as we speak; they will only wake up to the fact when it affects them personally (by which time it may be too late to do anything about it very easily). We've become more uncaring and intolerant generally as a society and certainly more brainwashed by what we're fed (the powers-that-be have well and truly got the people where they want them and all the warnings of a dystopian SF future as portrayed in the classic TV of the past seems unfortunately to be coming to pass). So I'd say we're less civilised on balance now, in comparison to the "unenlightened" '60s and '70s. With this scenario as a backdrop, it's no wonder the TV of today is as bad as it is.
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Post by John Green on Nov 23, 2014 11:12:50 GMT
I see the last 40 years as the triumph of the liberals; for me,that's meant having to sign four non-molestation orders at my late wife's request,which led of course to my getting threatened in the street,sent to Coventry by my sons' Special School,missing two birthdays and two Christmases with my profoundly-disabled son,and losing my estranged-and mentally ill-wife who's prognosis for lung cancer-on top of the amputation of both legs because of diabetes-was made "catastrophic because of her caring,on her own for these children" to quote the medical report.To assert that I'm innocent as I do is,of course,to be seen as being doubly-abusive. Much of my spare time these days is spent in defending young autistic and Down's syndrome adults from full-life Deprivation of Liberty Orders in the secret Court of Protection.If we really do live in the Golden Age,I haven't seen it.I suspect that many of those involved in the 70's libertarian causes would have been horrified by many of the unintended consequences of their success.I'm continually reminded of the Dylan line "'Rip down all hate,I screamed'".Hate has been replaced by hate; just different victims. www.bobdylan.com/us/songs/my-back-pages For the whole "I was so smug and certain then" lyrics.
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Post by Greg H on Nov 23, 2014 13:14:48 GMT
Yes, I couldn't agree more. When people sneer at the so-called uncivilised past, they forget what is actually happening to our benefits and health care system as we speak; they will only wake up to the fact when it affects them personally (by which time it may be too late to do anything about it very easily). We've become more uncaring and intolerant generally as a society and certainly more brainwashed by what we're fed (the powers-that-be have well and truly got the people where they want them and all the warnings of a dystopian SF future as portrayed in the classic TV of the past seems unfortunately to be coming to pass). So I'd say we're less civilised on balance now, in comparison to the "unenlightened" '60s and '70s. With this scenario as a backdrop, it's no wonder the TV of today is as bad as it is. Absolutely Laurence. When the NHS is gone and people with a sickly child are forced into poverty and debt to pay for their child to enjoy a normal standard of living, then they will turn around and say 'hang about, this isn't fair', but it will be far too late by then. A mate of mine who has severe arthritis has recently had his benefits stopped, he cannot physically work; is he supposed to live without dignity from hand outs from his friends? These are not the signs of a society that is progressing anywhere except the dystopian future you mention. I do not believe anyone (so far as I know) in this country has ever cast a vote for a 'neo liberal' party in the UK, but somehow we have 4 different flavours of neo liberalism on offer, the only parties that are allowed to debate on the television in the electoral debates. That isn't democracy. The media tell us to blame people on benefits for the lack of cash but completely ignores the 70 billion GB pounds that are lost to big business tax avoidance ever year. Imagine if that money was put into healthcare and education instead of the bank account of someone who donates a cut back to the government for their publicity. Democracy is pretty well over in the UK. I believe the appropriate word to describe the UK is an oligarchy. Better than the 60s and 70s? I sincerely think not. Society at least had some integrity back then.
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Post by lee jones on Nov 23, 2014 13:44:58 GMT
A brief thought: Isn't it concerning that if a new dictator arose tomorrow and took charge all the tools needed for social and political control are all in place?
Me personally I don't think we are more civilised or even that more sophisticated than we were back in the 70s. A lot of it seems to be myth and illusion, lies that we repeatadly tell ourselves or are sold each and every day. It is only my opinion but I think that's what happens when you push big business and money being the be-all of everything everywhere, and politicians that are themselves becoming increasingly dictatorial while telling us "we work for you". I cannot help but feel that this is either the logical endpoint of our current system and/or something mainstream is about to fail or break sooner rather than later.
I forget where but I once heard this description once of what is happening today btw; "Our politicians have pinned us back to a time in the nebulous past (more than likely in the late 1980s). But time does not oblige them! We are moving further away from that point and if you imagine what joins the two - call it, for example society then they are moving further and further apart. Think of them like an elastic band. Right now that elastic band is starting to shake and is very close to the point of snapping. If it should snap, then it is essentially game over; we would call that revolution. The answer then is to decouple from that point in the past, or we run the risk of voilent collapse".
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Post by brianfretwell on Nov 23, 2014 23:21:12 GMT
I've just watched some of the part 2 repeat. I don't think those giving their opinions about the Derek Griffith's song on the variety show remember that "Melting Pot" by Blue Mink was a hit record and that that was the reason for it being used. It was not written for the show.
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Post by John Green on Nov 23, 2014 23:26:20 GMT
I've just watched some of the part 2 repeat. I don't think those giving their opinions about the Derek Griffith's song on the variety show remember that "Melting Pot" by Blue Mink was a hit record and that that was the reason for it being used. It was not written for the show. Is history no longer taught? Seriously,it's an amusing thought.You'd certainly have thought they'd've checked.
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Post by Marie Griffiths on Nov 24, 2014 0:28:52 GMT
I'm not one for political correctness, just good old fashioned respect for one another, fairness, equality and integration. Some of the examples in the documentary were intentionally racist, sexist and homophobic others were just misguided. The racists, sexists and homophobes use political correctness as an excuse for their wrong actions and the political correct use is as an excuse for their wrong actions to just bully and fight and gain power and money. The B and W minstrels had no reason to black up to sing their songs except an outdated tradition and could have kept on air. It is rather hypocritical of them to criticize when the same channel has a camp homosexual Alan Carr doing an impressionism of an sexploitation image Kim Kardassian. Which was he did quite amusingly. We also have disguised soft porn, the showers in I'm a celebrity at peek time. We are sadly regressing back to the 70's. Why can't we have a non camp gay bloke presenting like Dr Christian Jessen? Why can't we have a plain women presenting without being derided like Mary Beard, who actually know their subject. Billy Oddie was given an unnecessarily hard time as his work was taken out of context. He was actually an perhaps clumsily portraying a racist to derive it and also satirizing the B and W minstrels by copying their style. The portrayal at the time had to use extremely offensive terms as the relatively mildly offensive terms were in use even by the police as we saw later. The racism shown by the police explains the dark days of the 70's and 80's with the Brixton riots. Hopefully they got sacked or extensively re-trained. The officer talking about detecting homosexuals by their gay shirts and aftershave was like a Not The Nine O'clock New Sketch. It was so outlandish that it was hysterical. We can learn from the past that is why we need to archive and understand its context. The guests should have been allowed to answer "What were you thinking?" and be able to answer in a non judgemental way. It is a pity Roy Hull, music hall expert wasn't able to give a full explanation for those looking with modern asthetics. We should not be complacent about the current. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 8:50:46 GMT
I don't see any movement back to the '70s in any way whatsoever (the opposite, in fact). I do agree completely though that we need archives to understand the past - even though archive material is presented increasingly less contextualised (although lip service is paid to the notion that material is offered "as is", for people to make up their own minds about what they see - "democratising", apparently - the opposite is actually the case, with archive footage being very heavily weighted and framed by current values.
The B&W Minstrels was merely a successful tradition which had carried on through the decades (blacking up included, even though it wouldn't be acceptable today) - a remnant of an earlier era. It was enjoyed by (probably older) people who wouldn't have seen anything racist in the show. It was merely song and dance to them - my parents included - were they wrong to enjoy this entertainment and who's to say at which point the blacking up should have stopped?. These things are never black and white (no pun intended). It was inevitable it had to end eventually though and it was merely a case of when. I agree though that the PC values we live with today are no better than previous prejudices in many ways; the original reasons for them coming into being were probably noble but they've probably been forgotten and corrupted with time anyway, leaving odd attitudes and ways of doing things that seem to exist for no reason at all.
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Post by Alan Scott on Nov 24, 2014 20:47:14 GMT
It's not just attitudes that have changed in the last 40 years, the meaning of words have. The clip of the song sung by Jack Jones which had the lyrics "We'll have a kid or maybe we'll rent one, I hope he is straight, we don't want a bent one." was written by Randy Newman, the American singer songwriter in the mid to late 60's. The implication was made by the programme and the assumption made by the younger interviewees was that the song was homophobic. Straight meaning heterosexual has only come into use relatively recently and bent meaning gay is British slang. In addition, anyone with any knowledge of Newman's work would know that he has exposed and pokes fun at prejudice in his songs. His song Half A Man is about homophobia.
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