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Post by John Green on Sept 10, 2014 13:36:27 GMT
We're O/T again,but I love it when a film has a scene of the star making a film-within-a-film,complete with showing how playbacks are done,while in other scenes we're meant to immerse ourselves in the fiction that there's an orchestra on the bicycle with her.e.g.The Garland 'A Star is Born'.
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Post by Tony Walshaw on Sept 11, 2014 7:35:14 GMT
Great MM article posted above by William. It indicates how rock music was taking away work from the orchestras. It ties in with this that I posted previously (on the Nick Drake thread): I think those in charge of broadcasting became uneasy around 1970. As far as presenting was concerned, this included the shenanigans of Dee and Everett. The deaths of certain prominent rock stars, and other misfortunes like the Manson murders and Altamount, made events like the UK free festivals seem subversive and dangerous to older generations. Avant garde guest artists on prime-time family shows were phased out onto niche shows once more. The 'entertainment establishment' would also be concerned about the impact of the new rock culture upon MU members. They could further their cause by highlighting the negative aspects of it. Is it significant that around this time, rock music made major attempts, with quite considerable success, to align itself with orchestral music. There was the CCS project, where rock and session performers, and an orchestra, were gathered under a top arranger to create a contemporary 'big band' sound. The writers and frontmen were allowed their creativity, and the MU'd orchestra players gained their paid work. Mickie Most, who had not been enamoured by the MU standpoint, was the driving force behind this, which seems to be an astute attempt to arbitrate between the polarising opposites. Then there is the emergence of ELO & ELP. Rock bands with a major orchestral involvement. They had a remit to take rock music further, but did they also recruit orchestral players whose work in the accepted sense was in decline? Beyond the frontmen of the band, were the cello-players etc paid at MU-approved rates?
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Post by Tony Walshaw on Sept 15, 2014 8:44:53 GMT
Thank you for posting the links to these enlightening articles John. They shed much more light on the situation. And the 'needle-time' one in particular reveals more about the situation with Kenny Everett and the BBC.
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Post by John Green on Sept 15, 2014 9:09:37 GMT
Thanks,Tony. From the sound of it,research for that site is ongoing,so we'll have to keep checking! Added: so at one stage,a branch called for the banning of the synthesizer: www.slideshare.net/john1306/strasbourg-23910652 Love it that the Guardian (!) in the 80s called the MU "a doctrinaire left-wing organisation as tight-lipped as the KGB".Mind you,we don't know if that was meant as a criticism... I wonder if their archive contains any telly?
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Post by johnstewart on Sept 30, 2014 14:27:31 GMT
Interesting to try and guess which 1970 - 73 editions have live elements. I know the tracks were supposed to be rerecorded for the BBC; but most often bands seem to be not plugged in, miming, whilst the vocals or orchestras seem to be live. I noted on the 2 earliest surviving Rod Stewart hits it does appear hes doing a live vocal whilst parts of the backing band are definitely miming. When we get to Mott the Hoople 'Roll away the stone' later, the vocal seems to be live over a recorded vocal and backing track. Marc Bolan sometimes does this on surviving performances also.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 21:24:07 GMT
I redcall Fox On The Run by The Sweet sounded grittier on TOTP than it did on the single. And Sweet Music by Showaddywaddy was way better TOTP than the anodyne single version.
Steve Harley & david Bowie got their lyrics wrong for Make Me Smile and Starman respectively, Rossi burst out laughing on Pictures Of Matchstick Men ... but all sounded way more authentic than their studio versions.
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Post by Liam Joseph on Oct 1, 2014 7:34:37 GMT
The TOTP performance of Let It All Hang Out by Jonathan King is far better than the studio version with a much bigger Hammond sound (I'd have been very disappointed if I'd bought the single on the basis of the TOTP version). Then again Softly Whispering I Love You by The Congregation sounded a bit of a car crash when sung live if that recently discovered home recording is any indication.
Perhaps a dodgy TOTP performance affected a single's chances of becoming a hit? The Uriah Heep rendition of The Wizard wasn't a patch on the studio one, although Argent did a really good version of Tragedy which didn't break into the Top 30.
EDIT: Another one I've just thought of, My Baby Loves Lovin' by White Plains has a much weaker arrangement than the original. The TOTP Orchestra really could put the kibosh on things!
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Oct 1, 2014 9:21:07 GMT
For the audiophile or music collector, the whole area of alternative versions is fantastic.
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Post by Tony Walshaw on Oct 2, 2014 8:00:06 GMT
Yes, the TOTP Orchestra generally provided rousing alternatives. But with some exceptions, as mentioned above.
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Post by Phil Chappell on Oct 6, 2014 12:06:53 GMT
Kate Bush sang live on her first TOTPs and hates the performance, The orchestra couldn't cope with the complex time signatures and it just sounds terrible compared to the single of Wuthering Heights, didn't stop it getting to number one though.
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Oct 6, 2014 12:24:33 GMT
The version of A Whiter Shade of Pale found on decaying 8mm film, and brought back to life by the BFI featured Gary Brooker very obviously getting the words wrong!
This is not to be confused with the commonly seen version that exists in the Beeb archives.
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Post by Tony Walshaw on Oct 7, 2014 7:58:51 GMT
Phil - I didn't think Kate's TOTP live renditions were terrible as such. I prefer to see them as having the true edge of a live performance. The same can be said of the "wrong words" Procol Harum.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 9:56:19 GMT
The version of A Whiter Shade of Pale found on decaying 8mm film, and brought back to life by the BFI featured Gary Brooker very obviously getting the words wrong! This is not to be confused with the commonly seen version that exists in the Beeb archives. This was transferred from an old and decaying 1" tape format, Ray (along with See Emily Play and some other clips), rather than being on 8mm film. A fascinating piece of history though, which shows that TOTP clearly had it's exciting and edgy moments!
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Kev Hunter
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Post by Kev Hunter on Oct 7, 2014 10:08:44 GMT
Worst live TOTP performance has to be Arthur Mullard and Hylda Baker performing "You're The One That I Want". The single was bad enough but this was just carnage.. www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8kRNMyvkAw
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Post by Phil Chappell on Oct 7, 2014 17:59:09 GMT
Phil - I didn't think Kate's TOTP live renditions were terrible as such. I prefer to see them as having the true edge of a live performance. The same can be said of the "wrong words" Procol Harum. Ok, maybe terrible was too strong a word, it was not Kate's fault, she coped as well as could be expected, given the orchestration. I'm mostly taking about the very first TOTP here, when she was introduced by Kid Jensen, the following two versions were much better, one seated at the piano and one in a white dress dancing.
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