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Post by Jeff Stone on Oct 1, 2005 14:00:16 GMT
Reading the Prisoner 35th Anniversary Companion booklet, I notice a scene from the episode 'Free
For All' featuring 6 singing a weird song at the Village night club, and most of a beating scene near the
end, were cut from the master print. While the latter footage was reinstated, the song sequence wasn't. I assume it's been destroyed, but is it possible it still exists?
For that matter, has anyone had any luck tracking down the original 16mm print of the alternative 'Arrival'?
Fascinating as the fuzzy home video copy is on the DVD, it'd be nice to get a crisper version.
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Post by B Thomas on Oct 3, 2005 10:35:47 GMT
Re: the "alternative" version of "Arrival"...
a) If you mean the purported 90-minute version - this version never existed or;
b) If you mean a clean film print of the version on the 35th aniversary DVD - the copy on the DVD is apparently (as far as I know) taken from the only known film version of this edit. This film was in storage for many years (in either Canada or the US - I forget which) and the picture quality is indicative of the current state of that print.
I may be wrong about this - if anyone knows different: please advise...
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Post by Lance on Oct 3, 2005 21:52:03 GMT
The other ' arrival' survives as an NTSC tape , the print has never been found and was allegedly to have been destroyed early on by McGoohan because it was deemed as a work in progress demo. The print was thought to have been sent to Canada and somebody taped it before it was sent back.
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Post by B Thomas on Oct 4, 2005 0:42:41 GMT
Hmmm... I wonder why this would be taped? Any idea what format it was put on?
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Post by Lance on Oct 6, 2005 10:11:23 GMT
Perhaps the wrong print was sent and somebody had taped it for a N .American time shift? I am sure your aware though that the filming of the prisoner was complete chaos, so anything can be speculated. In London ATV people were tearing their hair out because McGoohan was failing to meet transmission deadlines even though he had been filming since 1966.
Allegedly after Lew Grade saw a very long (maybe this is the elusive 90 minute show?) 'girl who was death' he blew a fuse and said enough was enough and told McGoohan to wrap the show ASAP. With hind site we could say Grade was acting like a plutocrat with no interest in the art, but he was after all, paying most of the bills, the show was well over budget and Grade along with the rest of the country(world?) had no idea (at the time ) the point McGoohan was trying to make.
Genius out of chaos, clashing egos, the human spirit,and an exciting era ..... wouldn't happen to day would it?
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Post by The Borad on Oct 6, 2005 15:19:40 GMT
My understanding was that the alternate 'Arrival' was an early edit which was sent as a viewing print, so that North American TV stations could decide whether they wanted to buy the series. It was accidentally broadcast during a repeat run in the 1970s, and it was from this transmission that an off-air video recording was made by a fan taping the series. Attempts to track down the original film print have yielded little success.
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Post by SteveS on Oct 6, 2005 20:50:29 GMT
Quick question for prisoner experts on the board:
I've been thinking of upgrading from my old Laser Discs of the Priosner to the DVDs.
The questions I have is whether I should get the US A&E set, or the new UK set? Is there any difference in quality?
Also -- and this is important -- is the UK set run at 25fps? And if so, did they correct the pitch?
I ended up getting UFO set 1 from the UK and Set 2 from the US, and the UK set was sped up and everyone sounded like chipmunks....
(Both these shows are properly run at 24fps, not 25fps)
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Post by Simon Wells on Oct 10, 2005 14:07:08 GMT
SteveS, Whatever you do get the Umbrella Australian DVD set. Not only is the quality the best I have seen of the series, but it includes all of Steven Ricks' home movies that he acquired from members of the crew. Included is the only footage of the Mark 1 "Rover" Unmissable! As far as I know, all of the out-takes of the Prisoner were destroyed soon after the series was broadcast. However, all of the "stock" footage used for the series DOES indeed still exist. This was the company ITC used for the series www.worldbackgrounds.com/ |
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Post by helpful hartley on Oct 10, 2005 16:33:36 GMT
Quick question for prisoner experts on the board: (Both these shows are properly run at 24fps, not 25fps) TV film shows in europe are shot at 25fps I would have thought .Certainly all the cameras I have seen have a 24/25 shooting speed option. No reason to shoot them at 24fps . Reduction for fps is made on the export syndication print. |
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Post by Steven Sigel on Oct 10, 2005 17:10:24 GMT
Quick question for prisoner experts on the board: (Both these shows are properly run at 24fps, not 25fps) TV film shows in europe are shot at 25fps I would have thought .Certainly all the cameras I have seen have a 24/25 shooting speed option. No reason to shoot them at 24fps . Reduction for fps is made on the export syndication print. Nope -- not true.... All of the ITC shows (Prisoner, Secret Agent, Space 1999, UFO, etc) were shot at 24fps . Not sure why - unless they figured that the US market was more important. Other filmed shows like "The Professionals" were shot at 25fps. And of course all of the telerecorded shows from the UK are at 25fps (like Dr. Who)... |
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Post by h hartley on Oct 10, 2005 18:52:56 GMT
Nope -- not true.... All of the ITC shows (Prisoner, Secret Agent, Space 1999, UFO, etc) were shot at 24fps . Not sure why - unless they figured that the US market was more important. Other filmed shows like "The Professionals" were shot at 25fps. And of course all of the telerecorded shows from the UK are at 25fps (like Dr. Who)... Bizarre? I would have thought it have been easier to loose a frame and make a 24 fps print for export? Also a 25fps print should have been beneficial to the USA, as they would have only had to invent 4.9 frames instead of 5.9.... ;D. only joking i know about 3/2 pull down etc. Certainly the Prisoner does not sound any different (to me at least) from its premier which was from a presumably 25fps telecine?, to today where they can run it at speed they like. I am still of the opinion that the majority of speed variations are due to poor DVD authoring rather than the source itself. |
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Post by Steven Sigel on Oct 10, 2005 19:28:21 GMT
Nope -- not true.... All of the ITC shows (Prisoner, Secret Agent, Space 1999, UFO, etc) were shot at 24fps . Not sure why - unless they figured that the US market was more important. Other filmed shows like "The Professionals" were shot at 25fps. And of course all of the telerecorded shows from the UK are at 25fps (like Dr. Who)... Bizarre? I would have thought it have been easier to loose a frame and make a 24 fps print for export? Also a 25fps print should have been beneficial to the USA, as they would have only had to invent 4.9 frames instead of 5.9.... ;D. only joking i know about 3/2 pull down etc. Certainly the Prisoner does not sound any different (to me at least) from its premier which was from a presumably 25fps telecine?, to today where they can run it at speed they like. I am still of the opinion that the majority of speed variations are due to poor DVD authoring rather than the source itself. I'd have to hear the DVDs to tell if they're at the right speed or not... The UFO dvds are awful -- the region 2 set was run at 25fps, and is way off pitch... You would have thought that they would have at least fixed that -- but maybe they figured that people in the UK are used to them being at the wrong speed... BTW -- you can't convert from 25fps to 24fps by dropping a frame - you'd lose 4% of the sound too.. Would not be pretty... |
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Post by helpful hartley on Oct 10, 2005 20:19:21 GMT
[quote I'd have to hear the DVDs to tell if they're at the right speed or not... The UFO dvds are awful -- the region 2 set was run at 25fps, and is way off pitch... You would have thought that they would have at least fixed that -- but maybe they figured that people in the UK are used to them being at the wrong speed... BTW -- you can't convert from 25fps to 24fps by dropping a frame - you'd lose 4% of the sound too.. Would not be pretty... Its probably something going on in your DVD player? These days it would have been run at whatever the correct speed was and mastered for the the two regions so if it was 24fps the telecine would be run at 24fps a frame store or something would have added 1 frame to the pal vt and 4 odd to the ntsc master The flying spot telecine which could only run at 25fps has not been around for about 15 years now IIRC as for UK audiences being use to wrong high pitched sound tracks , it would have been remastered at least for todays audiences so the speed should be right. Americans love to have a dig at this, but technology has moved on for them as well, at least they dont now have to put up with jerky old films as their old systems use to struggle to make the extra frames. |
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Post by Steven Sigel on Oct 10, 2005 21:08:19 GMT
[quote I'd have to hear the DVDs to tell if they're at the right speed or not... The UFO dvds are awful -- the region 2 set was run at 25fps, and is way off pitch... You would have thought that they would have at least fixed that -- but maybe they figured that people in the UK are used to them being at the wrong speed... BTW -- you can't convert from 25fps to 24fps by dropping a frame - you'd lose 4% of the sound too.. Would not be pretty... Its probably something going on in your DVD player? These days it would have been run at whatever the correct speed was and mastered for the the two regions so if it was 24fps the telecine would be run at 24fps a frame store or something would have added 1 frame to the pal vt and 4 odd to the ntsc master The flying spot telecine which could only run at 25fps has not been around for about 15 years now IIRC as for UK audiences being use to wrong high pitched sound tracks , it would have been remastered at least for todays audiences so the speed should be right. Americans love to have a dig at this, but technology has moved on for them as well, at least they dont now have to put up with jerky old films as their old systems use to struggle to make the extra frames. Sorry but no. I have set 1 of the UFO dvds from the UK and Set 2 from the US, and the US set is at the right speed, but the UK set is not... |
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