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Post by andyc on Apr 18, 2014 18:31:25 GMT
An Unearthly Child on now. Lovely to see the very first episode again. More atmosphere in that than in 3 years of David Tennant.
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Post by shellyharman67 on Apr 19, 2014 9:42:35 GMT
The voice over at the end is so friggin annoying !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Great classic story ! Moff watch it and you might just have a clue
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Post by Patrick Coles on Apr 19, 2014 10:49:05 GMT
it's simply a quite incredible concept...but told in a very credible manner Ian and Barbara are as baffled and disbelieving as the viewers in episode one....then we are 'hooked' on it the three part caveman story shows a 'power struggle' re leadership with a basically good leader, a evil interloper, and an intuitive woman urging her man to fight off the threat of the interloper....while the Tardis crew have a grim struggle for their lives - with the whole thing being played quite straight, some basic but excellent special effects in episode one, good incidental music, and great sets (for a studio based production in 1963) very tightly directed & well photographed - tho' a cave of skulls, bones, and a few skeletons, plus brutal caveman fight to the death was pretty grim stuff for saturday tea times....none of that 'everybody lives' nonsense back then ! above all stands a quite mesmerising performance by William Hartnell - utterly compelling - as a quite alien 'Doctor' who is cunning, sulky, enigmatic, mocking of humans limited minds, not even that likeable or trustworthy (here to begin with) certainly not heroic and at that point not 'loveable grandfather' at all....but who IS sharp, intelligent, perceptive, and a magnetic figure we are drawn too....with strong support from William Russell as the heroic 'Ian Chesterton' (whatever happened to the strong male companion character ?) and Jackie Hill as the compassionate intelligent level headed Barbara with young Carole Ann Ford having to scream alot but remember she's a character (quite effectively enigmatic and 'unearthly' in the first episode) who thereafter is firmly depicted as a scared teenager - aimed at the younger viewers for them to identify with... Derek Newark (much later in Jon Pertwee's 'Inferno' story) & Alethea Charlton plus Jeremy Young (as the viillan) Kal all give decent guest cast support Verity, Waris, and the (recently 'airbrushed out' by Gatiss) David Whitaker & co all got the best out of everyone involved...with Verity's shrewd choice of veteran actor Bill Hartnell proving quite perfect (even if it was for a 'kid's show'- supposedly) and we haven't even met The Daleks yet.... Verity, Innes, Peter, Derrick, Barry, Phil, & even (in a good number of stories) the much maligned JNT all managed to keep the show in it's true spirit for so long by building on this opening... so, how come BBC Wales, RTD, Moff & the 'old boys club' of writers manage to make such a consistant 'Pig's ear' of it...
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Post by Ian Ferrier on Apr 19, 2014 15:41:20 GMT
Good to see Horror channel using the fully restored / vidfired mind robber and terror of the autons.
Pity horror channel on Virgin is a low bitrate.
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Post by shellyharman67 on Apr 19, 2014 15:48:14 GMT
it's simply a quite incredible concept...but told in a very credible manner Ian and Barbara are as baffled and disbelieving as the viewers in episode one....then we are 'hooked' on it the three part caveman story shows a 'power struggle' re leadership with a basically good leader, a evil interloper, and an intuitive woman urging her man to fight off the threat of the interloper....while the Tardis crew have a grim struggle for their lives - with the whole thing being played quite straight, some basic but excellent special effects in episode one, good incidental music, and great sets (for a studio based production in 1963) very tightly directed & well photographed - tho' a cave of skulls, bones, and a few skeletons, plus brutal caveman fight to the death was pretty grim stuff for saturday tea times....none of that 'everybody lives' nonsense back then ! above all stands a quite mesmerising performance by William Hartnell - utterly compelling - as a quite alien 'Doctor' who is cunning, sulky, enigmatic, mocking of humans limited minds, not even that likeable or trustworthy (here to begin with) certainly not heroic and at that point not 'loveable grandfather' at all....but who IS sharp, intelligent, perceptive, and a magnetic figure we are drawn too....with strong support from William Russell as the heroic 'Ian Chesterton' (whatever happened to the strong male companion character ?) and Jackie Hill as the compassionate intelligent level headed Barbara with young Carole Ann Ford having to scream alot but remember she's a character (quite effectively enigmatic and 'unearthly' in the first episode) who thereafter is firmly depicted as a scared teenager - aimed at the younger viewers for them to identify with... Derek Newark (much later in Jon Pertwee's 'Inferno' story) & Alethea Charlton plus Jeremy Young (as the viillan) Kal all give decent guest cast support Verity, Waris, and the (recently 'airbrushed out' by Gatiss) David Whitaker & co all got the best out of everyone involved...with Verity's shrewd choice of veteran actor Bill Hartnell proving quite perfect (even if it was for a 'kid's show'- supposedly) and we haven't even met The Daleks yet.... Verity, Innes, Peter, Derrick, Barry, Phil, & even (in a good number of stories) the much maligned JNT all managed to keep the show in it's true spirit for so long by building on this opening... so, how come BBC Wales, RTD, Moff & the 'old boys club' of writers manage to make such a consistant 'Pig's ear' of it... All the time Moff is in charge it wont change. The same as jnt ! They have this vision thats is so far off what it should be, they are deluded its the right direction.
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Post by Paul G on Apr 20, 2014 7:56:50 GMT
All the time Moff is in charge it wont change. The same as jnt ! They have this vision thats is so far off what it should be, they are deluded its the right direction. Questions is then, what should it be? Couldn't you level the above criticism at anything that deviates from season 1 (1963-64)?
Though, of course, as we've been told before this is a discussion for another forum.
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Post by shellyharman67 on Apr 20, 2014 10:27:13 GMT
All the time Moff is in charge it wont change. The same as jnt ! They have this vision thats is so far off what it should be, they are deluded its the right direction. Questions is then, what should it be? Couldn't you level the above criticism at anything that deviates from season 1 (1963-64)?
Though, of course, as we've been told before this is a discussion for another forum.
Well, i enjoyed the Brain of Morbius The good old days
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Post by Patrick Coles on Apr 20, 2014 11:08:02 GMT
I would say the basic premise is:
A Space/Time travelling eccentric alien who has adventures which are good v evil encounters mainly involving the fight to retain or establish freedom over oppression, that CAN be followed by everyone and enjoyed, that are played in a reasonably credible essentially straight style (odd touches of humour, but not 'cheap laughs' or slapstick naffness), with one or more companions who are likeable and brave but don't HOG the show repeatedly or 'marginalise' the central figure of The Doctor.
Adeventures can be in the past,present or future (or any mixture) and The Doctor can either be heroic or the 'random factor' in the downfall of the foe(s)
Above all the stories should be FOLLOWABLE, not forever 'disappearing up their own..paradox' or 'emo drivel' piffle with irritatingly smug 'know all' (usually female but can be the odd 'smart alec' bloke) characters again effectively sidelining The Doctor
The Doctor character is intelligent, brave, cunning, and resourseful...but never infallible, can make bad errors of judgement (his companions too) while he is also a rebellious figure who is suspicious of 'authority' and 'establishment' knowing it can get too powerful, above all he's a lover of life and has wanderlust to explore the universe in all it's time periods - he is the compelling 'maypole' figure around which the show revolves.
once you drop that idea...say if you start over featuring supporting characters, piling on the emo drivel, over confusing stories to hide any basic storyline weaknesses, featuring 'celebs' to try to boost the shows appeal, going OTT at apeing Hollywood film 'epics' to try to impress viewers, and generally 'taking the p*ss' out of the show all for the sake of a few cheap laughs...
...you then lose the basic premise of the 'Dr.Who' programme, which despite some 'modernising' style alterations over time (once forced on the show by BBC budget restraints in the early seventies) essentially kept it's core stance in place - certainly in the better tales -over the period from the early sixties to late eighties (excepting the odd storyline or phase where another approach was attempted, and as a rule quickly abandoned in favour of a return to the show's core strengths)
That's re the 'Dr.Who' show that ran from 1963 to 1989,
I believe a parody 're-imagining' show based upon it was done by BBC Wales from 2005
(I understand that 'Star Trek' also has had a similar 're-imagining' / 'reboot')
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Post by shellyharman67 on Apr 20, 2014 11:16:11 GMT
I would say the basic premise is: A Space/Time travelling eccentric alien who has adventures that CAN be followed and enjoyed, that are played in a reasonably credible straight style (odd touches of humour, but not 'cheap laughs' or slapstick naffness), with one or more companions who are likeable and brave but don't HOG the show repeatedly or 'marginalise' the central figure of The Doctor. Adeventures can be in the past,present or future (or any mixture) and The Doctor can either be heroic or the 'random factor' in the downfall of the foe(s) Above all the stories should be FOLLOWABLE, not forever 'disappearing up their own..paradox' or 'emo drivel' piffle with irritatingly smug 'know all' (usually female but can be the odd 'smart alec' bloke) characters again effectively sidelining The Doctor The Doctor character is intelligent, brave, cunning, and resourseful...but never infallible, can make bad errors of judgement (his companions too) while he is also a rebellious figure who is suspicious of 'authority' and 'establishment' knowing it can get too powerful, above all he's a lover of life and has wanderlust to explore the universe in all it's time periods - he is the compelling 'maypole' figure around which the show revolves. once you drop that idea...start over featuring supporting characters, piling on the emo drivel, over confusing stories to hide any basic storyline weaknesses, featuring 'celebs' to try to boost the shows appeal, going OTT at apeing Hollywood film 'epics' to try to impress viewers, and generally 'taking the p*ss' out of the show all for the sake of a few cheap laughs... ...you then lose the basic premise of the 'Dr.Who' programme, which despite some 'modernising' style alterations over time (once forced on the show by BBC budget restraints in the early seventies) essentially kept it's core stance in place - certainly in the better tales -over the period from the early sixties to late eighties That's re the 'Dr.Who' show that ran from 1963 to 1989, I believe a parody 're-imagining' show based upon it was done by BBC Wales from 2005 (I understand that 'Star Trek' also has had a similar 're-imagining' / 'reboot') Its the arcing stories, rory and amy love story rubbish ! Cold war and dinosaurs on a space ship, The silurian 2 parter are just how it should be. Stand alone stories work best. But oh well, i have all the dvds to remind me of what it should be like
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Post by Patrick Coles on Apr 20, 2014 11:30:10 GMT
provided the show keeps it's core strengths and basic approach, it can then move in many directions imagination wise...duly returning for the next story
overlong story arcs can get very boring and too much 'emo drivel' turns the thing into more of a 'soap' than anything....
too much very obvious 'championing' of certain parties such as say smug know all females, children, certain countries people, plus repeated silly 'digs' at say 'safe targets' such as: America, Colonial Britian, British Civil Service, the Royals, etc, can get very boring & predictable too as again this moves the show away from it's premise and towards the prejudices of certain writers...
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Post by shellyharman67 on Apr 20, 2014 12:03:41 GMT
provided the show keeps it's core strengths and basic approach, it can then move in many directions imagination wise...duly returning for the next story overlong story arcs can get very boring and too much 'emo drivel' turns the thing into more of a 'soap' than anything.... too much very obvious 'championing' of certain parties such as say smug know all females, children, certain countries people, plus repeated silly 'digs' at say 'safe targets' such as: America, Colonial Britian, British Civil Service, the Royals, etc, can get very boring & predictable too as again this moves the show away from it's premise and towards the prejudices of certain writers... If you want new viewers, you cant have these arcs ! Kids wont know what the hell is going on ! Make it basic, that works for the show..........
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Post by Simon Jailler on Apr 20, 2014 13:27:40 GMT
TV and viewing habits have moved on massively in a half century since An Unearthly Child so I can cut the new stories a bit of slack because of that. In keeping with Shelly's post above, I find the stories hard to follow and silly.
Terror of the Autons yesterday made an interesting comparison. This managed to deliver shocks and thrills without any CGI trickery, there was plenty of gravitas from the Master and the cast but in the right places, they managed to play it for laughs.
This was a show adults could sit down and watch with children because it entertained and thrilled at all levels. It will have stretched the children with some of the Sci Fi and the frankly horrific deaths and threats to life seen on screen but it's all done with great charm and tongue firmly in cheek.
I don't know if we can ever go back to that sort of television making but it is still thoroughly enjoyable. I seriously doubt anyone will be sharing that sense of nostalgia for the likes of Closing Time, the Donna Noble years or the depths of the Timey Wimey years but each to their own tastes.
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Post by shellyharman67 on Apr 20, 2014 14:09:33 GMT
TV and viewing habits have moved on massively in a half century since An Unearthly Child so I can cut the new stories a bit of slack because of that. In keeping with Shelly's post above, I find the stories hard to follow and silly. Terror of the Autons yesterday made an interesting comparison. This managed to deliver shocks and thrills without any CGI trickery, there was plenty of gravitas from the Master and the cast but in the right places, they managed to play it for laughs. This was a show adults could sit down and watch with children because it entertained and thrilled at all levels. It will have stretched the children with some of the Sci Fi and the frankly horrific deaths and threats to life seen on screen but it's all done with great charm and tongue firmly in cheek. I don't know if we can ever go back to that sort of television making but it is still thoroughly enjoyable. I seriously doubt anyone will be sharing that sense of nostalgia for the likes of Closing Time, the Donna Noble years or the depths of the Timey Wimey years but each to their own tastes. Well said Simon...........
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Apr 20, 2014 14:23:48 GMT
I think that the Horror Channel showings would have made an ideal platform to show WOF.A cable channel obscure enough and specialist enough to introduce tele - snap recons to a wider audience and Web is true horror in the classic sense of the genre. Come to mention it, Time Warrior and Planet of the Spiders also fit the bill perfectly!
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Post by Simon Jailler on Apr 20, 2014 14:28:01 GMT
I think that the Horror Channel showings would have made an ideal platform to show WOF.A cable channel obscure enough and specialist enough to introduce tele - snap recons to a wider audience and Web is true horror in the classic sense of the genre. Come to mention it, Time Warrior and Planet of the Spiders also fit the bill perfectly! Seeds of Doom, Jaz? That one scared me to death when I first saw it. It's a real horror story.
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