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Post by Richard Tipple on Jan 9, 2014 13:18:16 GMT
I agree with all of this. Nothing wrong with negative opinion, especially when it's structured as eloquently as Paul's feedback. I can't disagree with anything written here, other than I don't believe it has to be 'perfect' in order to win over new viewers. I believe a well colourised episode would be enough to make a large number of people who wouldn't normally give it a chance, take a look. Let's remember perfection can only exist within a framework of imperfection! Out of interest Paul, what do you make of my avatar? Am I on the right path with the skin tones, or would you like to see more gradual shades? All feedback very welcome! Hi Richard I'm happy to offer critique, I just hope it doesn't come across as criticism! It's not easy for me to tell because the avatar's quite small, so I apologise in advance if I'm telling you something you already know! I've never tried colouring a monochrome image so I might not have an appreciation of the challenges you face, but there are two things that stand out to me: As someone who dabbles in sketching portraits one thing I've learned when producing flesh tones is the careful use of other colours to complement them. You can see what I mean in the 4 pages in this tutorial: www.portrait-artist.org/color/colored-pencil-tutorial.htmlOf course this is intended for coloured pencils, and I've no idea how feasible, simple or effective this would be in video colourisation, but it feels to me that something along those lines would bring it to life. I imagine this would be extremely time consuming to maintain a consistency across frames, and may well be impractical! Secondly, the areas of skin reflecting light should be lighter and have less of a fleshy tone to them. The shadowy areas could also be darker. Take a look at the picture of Hartnell on this page to see what I mean (I realise it's not a colourised image, which is why I'm using it as an example): dailypop.wordpress.com/tag/william-hartnell-doctor-wh/It doesn't have the 'wash' feel to it because the tones are very distinct. Obviously this depends on the light source, but again I think it's something to consider. So it's not really a problem with the tones not being gradual enough IMHO. I'd be interested to know how applicable this is, if at all, in the work you're doing. Hi Paul, I really appreciate the time you've taken to write this, it's really useful. So thank you! I've only had a quick skim of the skin tone link, but it looks very helpful. There's some excellent tips there for colours that compliment certain lights. For brown hair, the flicks of purple amongst the terracotta seem to really work well. Again, you are quite right about lifting the light spots and darkening the shadows. The colours I've used have flattened the mix somewhat, so rebalancing the contrast here could work wonders. You've hit the nail on the head with the technicalities. While these changes in single frames would be difficult enough, applying them across frames could make it even harder! The shot I have in my avatar is relatively easy as there isn't much movement. When you have a subject turn and look as the camera zooms in and pulls back, you're in for a whole world of difficulty! Not least with the hair line! But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be something to strive towards. I've just completed at 30-second clip of a Dalek, wheeling around as the camera zooms in. You'd think nothing of it as a viewer, but the technical principles behind doing it are tricky - I can't stand colour bleeding, which can happen as as an object changes perspective, it's viewable shapes also changes - not always predictably! Which is why I go through it frame by frame. You can carry colour across frames, but I try and avoid this as I believe it produces better results. I'll take your comments on board and see if I can reasonably apply the suggestions to my episode. I think certainly the light and dark contrasts will really help, and then I'll be a bit braver with my pallet especially around the nose, eyes and mouth. Luckily I'm not being paid for this! I'm going to take my time and try and produce a 'reasonable to good' colourised episode of Doctor Who. Again, thanks for the feedback and wish me luck!
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Post by shellyharman67 on Jan 9, 2014 13:21:49 GMT
Hi Richard I'm happy to offer critique, I just hope it doesn't come across as criticism! It's not easy for me to tell because the avatar's quite small, so I apologise in advance if I'm telling you something you already know! I've never tried colouring a monochrome image so I might not have an appreciation of the challenges you face, but there are two things that stand out to me: As someone who dabbles in sketching portraits one thing I've learned when producing flesh tones is the careful use of other colours to complement them. You can see what I mean in the 4 pages in this tutorial: www.portrait-artist.org/color/colored-pencil-tutorial.htmlOf course this is intended for coloured pencils, and I've no idea how feasible, simple or effective this would be in video colourisation, but it feels to me that something along those lines would bring it to life. I imagine this would be extremely time consuming to maintain a consistency across frames, and may well be impractical! Secondly, the areas of skin reflecting light should be lighter and have less of a fleshy tone to them. The shadowy areas could also be darker. Take a look at the picture of Hartnell on this page to see what I mean (I realise it's not a colourised image, which is why I'm using it as an example): dailypop.wordpress.com/tag/william-hartnell-doctor-wh/It doesn't have the 'wash' feel to it because the tones are very distinct. Obviously this depends on the light source, but again I think it's something to consider. So it's not really a problem with the tones not being gradual enough IMHO. I'd be interested to know how applicable this is, if at all, in the work you're doing. Hi Paul, I really appreciate the time you've taken to write this, it's really useful. So thank you! I've only had a quick skim of the skin tone link, but it looks very helpful. There's some excellent tips there for colours that compliment certain lights. For brown hair, the flicks of purple amongst the terracotta seem to really work well. Again, you are quite right about lifting the light spots and darkening the shadows. The colours I've used have flattened the mix somewhat, so rebalancing the contrast here could work wonders. You've hit the nail on the head with the technicalities. While these changes in single frames would be difficult enough, applying them across frames could make it even harder! The shot I have in my avatar is relatively easy as there isn't much movement. When you have a subject turn and look as the camera zooms in and pulls back, you're in for a whole world of difficulty! Not least with the hair line! But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be something to strive towards. I've just completed at 30-second clip of a Dalek, wheeling around as the camera zooms in. You'd think nothing of it as a viewer, but the technical principles behind doing it are tricky - I can't stand colour bleeding, which is why I go through it frame by frame. You can carry colour across frames, but I try and avoid this as I believe it produces better results. I'll take your comments on board and see if I can reasonably apply the suggestions to my episode. I think certainly the light and dark contrasts will really help, and then I'll be a bit braver with my pallet especially around the nose, eyes and mouth. Luckily I'm not being paid for this! I'm going to take my time and try and produce a 'reasonable to good' colourised episode of Doctor Who. Again, thanks for the feedback and wish me luck! Many thanks for your hard work. And keep going please. Its the best thing ive seen in years. Since Web and Enemy
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Post by Richard Tipple on Jan 9, 2014 13:23:22 GMT
Many thanks for your hard work. And keep going please. Its the best thing ive seen in years. Since Web and Enemy Thank you! I'll keep going and post updates either here or on Twitter: @farfromallover I really appreciate the encouragement!
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Post by shellyharman67 on Jan 9, 2014 13:31:16 GMT
Many thanks for your hard work. And keep going please. Its the best thing ive seen in years. Since Web and Enemy Thank you! I'll keep going and post updates either here or on Twitter: @farfromallover I really appreciate the encouragement! Thanks Richard. I know we all have our spats at times. But we all love the show
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Post by Justin Watson on Jan 9, 2014 13:53:19 GMT
I must say I do like this thread. Not only because it is a topic that interests me (although shhh it may be off topic for a missing episodes forum). But I also like the fact that the discussion and critique has been very civilised...and that can only lead to more polished results and maybe a few more people becoming involved. The thing I like about the colourisations I have had the pleasure looking at, is that you can see a progression throughout the months/years as experience grows...very interesting. C'mon shellyharman67 get your paintbrushes out - I want to see what you can offer too
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Post by shellyharman67 on Jan 9, 2014 14:25:47 GMT
I must say I do like this thread. Not only because it is a topic that interests me (although shhh it may be off topic for a missing episodes forum). But I also like the fact that the discussion and critique has been very civilised...and that can only lead to more polished results and maybe a few more people becoming involved. The thing I like about the colourisations I have had the pleasure looking at, is that you can see a progression throughout the months/years as experience grows...very interesting. C'mon shellyharman67 get your paintbrushes out - I want to see what you can offer too Im rubbish lol. Its just something that really fascinates me a lot. I really think there is big millage in this Im very good at painting the Harlequin little figures ! And good ?
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Post by Justin Watson on Jan 9, 2014 14:36:35 GMT
I must say I do like this thread. Not only because it is a topic that interests me (although shhh it may be off topic for a missing episodes forum). But I also like the fact that the discussion and critique has been very civilised...and that can only lead to more polished results and maybe a few more people becoming involved. The thing I like about the colourisations I have had the pleasure looking at, is that you can see a progression throughout the months/years as experience grows...very interesting. C'mon shellyharman67 get your paintbrushes out - I want to see what you can offer too Im rubbish lol. Its just something that really fascinates me a lot. I really think there is big millage in this Im very good at painting the Harlequin little figures ! And good ? Well - every little helps as they say. If you aren't ready to get your fingers dirty I think it's great that you are showing your support to those putting their work out there.
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Post by Paul G on Jan 9, 2014 14:45:52 GMT
Regarding the whole who thing. Missing episodes, colour makeover. We all are a little OCD. You only have to read the comments of some. Passionate or obsession amounts to the same thing if it dominates ones life ! I'd say it's autism rather than OCD, but I see where you're coming from.
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Post by Paul G on Jan 9, 2014 14:47:48 GMT
Hi Richard I'm happy to offer critique, I just hope it doesn't come across as criticism! It's not easy for me to tell because the avatar's quite small, so I apologise in advance if I'm telling you something you already know! I've never tried colouring a monochrome image so I might not have an appreciation of the challenges you face, but there are two things that stand out to me: As someone who dabbles in sketching portraits one thing I've learned when producing flesh tones is the careful use of other colours to complement them. You can see what I mean in the 4 pages in this tutorial: www.portrait-artist.org/color/colored-pencil-tutorial.htmlOf course this is intended for coloured pencils, and I've no idea how feasible, simple or effective this would be in video colourisation, but it feels to me that something along those lines would bring it to life. I imagine this would be extremely time consuming to maintain a consistency across frames, and may well be impractical! Secondly, the areas of skin reflecting light should be lighter and have less of a fleshy tone to them. The shadowy areas could also be darker. Take a look at the picture of Hartnell on this page to see what I mean (I realise it's not a colourised image, which is why I'm using it as an example): dailypop.wordpress.com/tag/william-hartnell-doctor-wh/It doesn't have the 'wash' feel to it because the tones are very distinct. Obviously this depends on the light source, but again I think it's something to consider. So it's not really a problem with the tones not being gradual enough IMHO. I'd be interested to know how applicable this is, if at all, in the work you're doing. Hi Paul, I really appreciate the time you've taken to write this, it's really useful. So thank you! I've only had a quick skim of the skin tone link, but it looks very helpful. There's some excellent tips there for colours that compliment certain lights. For brown hair, the flicks of purple amongst the terracotta seem to really work well. Again, you are quite right about lifting the light spots and darkening the shadows. The colours I've used have flattened the mix somewhat, so rebalancing the contrast here could work wonders. You've hit the nail on the head with the technicalities. While these changes in single frames would be difficult enough, applying them across frames could make it even harder! The shot I have in my avatar is relatively easy as there isn't much movement. When you have a subject turn and look as the camera zooms in and pulls back, you're in for a whole world of difficulty! Not least with the hair line! But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be something to strive towards. I've just completed at 30-second clip of a Dalek, wheeling around as the camera zooms in. You'd think nothing of it as a viewer, but the technical principles behind doing it are tricky - I can't stand colour bleeding, which can happen as as an object changes perspective, it's viewable shapes also changes - not always predictably! Which is why I go through it frame by frame. You can carry colour across frames, but I try and avoid this as I believe it produces better results. I'll take your comments on board and see if I can reasonably apply the suggestions to my episode. I think certainly the light and dark contrasts will really help, and then I'll be a bit braver with my pallet especially around the nose, eyes and mouth. Luckily I'm not being paid for this! I'm going to take my time and try and produce a 'reasonable to good' colourised episode of Doctor Who. Again, thanks for the feedback and wish me luck! I'm really glad it's helped and I'll be even more pleased if you can make use of it. I look forward to seeing your avatar v2.0!
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Post by shellyharman67 on Jan 9, 2014 15:32:07 GMT
Im rubbish lol. Its just something that really fascinates me a lot. I really think there is big millage in this Im very good at painting the Harlequin little figures ! And good ? Well - every little helps as they say. If you aren't ready to get your fingers dirty I think it's great that you are showing your support to those putting their work out there. Glad to help. Its great that there is talent out there and putting in the hours
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Post by shellyharman67 on Jan 9, 2014 15:36:10 GMT
Regarding the whole who thing. Missing episodes, colour makeover. We all are a little OCD. You only have to read the comments of some. Passionate or obsession amounts to the same thing if it dominates ones life ! I'd say it's autism rather than OCD, but I see where you're coming from. My youngest is autistic. Fingers crossed for future efforts in colour adds, or missing episodes. Gonna be a long year waiting for you know what if its true
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Post by Paul G on Jan 9, 2014 16:42:55 GMT
I'd say it's autism rather than OCD, but I see where you're coming from. My youngest is autistic. Fingers crossed for future efforts in colour adds, or missing episodes. Gonna be a long year waiting for you know what if its true My wife works with autistic children; I've heard some amazing stories, and I've heard some awful stories. I've witnessed OCD ruin someone's quality of life and it's a terrible terrible thing. Meanwhile, back on-topic . . . I'm all for any more material appearing for colourisation
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Post by shellyharman67 on Jan 9, 2014 17:02:58 GMT
Masterplan or Highlanders, power would be great. Of course 2 have to be returned first
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Post by pelham cort on Jan 10, 2014 11:19:14 GMT
If you look at the standard of the Who work and then the L&H work the difference is obvious. The L&H colours are really very poor and I do not think that is harsh. Technology has moved on. I agree about the old L&H colourisations.they looked really poor. however march of the wooden solders looked very amazing and colourful in colour(I've seen some clips in YouTube and screenshots and they were stunning). Legend did a great job.they also redid an early one(the hospital one)in the colourised version of "the best of laurel and hardy"(1969). You can find the shorts on YouTube. I would like to see a better version of night caller from outer space(1965). The colourised one on the DVD was really poor like in one shot,they left the windows and the backdrop with a house and garden(with fence)in black and white. And those London shots.my god they were horrible! I think legend films should have done a better job on it.
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Post by shellyharman67 on Jan 10, 2014 11:31:23 GMT
There is 30 years difference between the hardy ones and who. What i have seen so far of the shorts recons/colour adds are good i think.
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