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Post by scotttelfer on Dec 11, 2013 19:57:15 GMT
I don't believe that it has been established as fact which types were sent.  I remember we had a thread about it not long ago. Although we knew a rough date when the BBC moved from stored to suppressed, and a rough date when the Mexico prints were stuck, we couldn't establish either one firmly enough to say one way or the other, if I remember correctly. tl;dr: me too. Sorry. From what I can see it is stored prints, there was an article in DWM shortly after the recovery in 2011 that states that all the dubbed films were stored rather than supressed. Certainly by the time the Mexico prints were struck they had already created the prints for Venezuela (which was the first country to buy the show dubbed). Interestingly the article suggests that the masters for dubbing may have been created as the master tapes were actually being wiped which would account for the absence of certain stories from the line-up (although this would seemingly not be a very long time frame). If stored film copies were made of all the early episodes it would seem odd to go back to the earlier supressed method later on. They still have the Arabic copies of The Daleks, perhaps that will offer a clue? |
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Post by Andrew Parker on Dec 13, 2013 11:01:54 GMT
Assuming, of course, that the BBC did not also destroy the remaining 35mm recordings later. That's the reason why we are missing Power 6.  And Wheel in Space part 5. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2013 16:20:49 GMT
Indeed the thought that there could have been more episodes missing if it wasn't for Ian Levine is a very scary thought indeed. There would certaintly have been more "Holy Grail" stories like An Unearthly Child, The Daleks, The Daleks Invasion of Earth, The Chase and a lot others. I also think there would have been more recoveries as well. There could have been a collector who had a copy of the Daleks somewhere in his collection and if we make all the other recoveries such as Evil of the Daleks 2 a fixed point in time, I think the recoveries would be comming thick and fast. Still thank goodness this is all speculation and we can all enjoy The First Doctor kidnapping Ian and Barbara amd meeting the Daleks the first time. However in another Dimmension, we might have all the episodes to enjoy  Heres to the next recovery! |
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Post by scotttelfer on Dec 14, 2013 18:03:07 GMT
Indeed the thought that there could have been more episodes missing if it wasn't for Ian Levine is a very scary thought indeed. There would certaintly have been more "Holy Grail" stories like An Unearthly Child, The Daleks, The Daleks Invasion of Earth, The Chase and a lot others. I also think there would have been more recoveries as well. There could have been a collector who had a copy of the Daleks somewhere in his collection and if we make all the other recoveries such as Evil of the Daleks 2 a fixed point in time, I think the recoveries would be comming thick and fast. Still thank goodness this is all speculation and we can all enjoy The First Doctor kidnapping Ian and Barbara amd meeting the Daleks the first time. However in another Dimmension, we might have all the episodes to enjoy Heres to the next recovery! If it hasn't been for Ian Levine there's a very good chance the destruction could have continued for many more years, possibly even until the video range started up. It's easy to get caught up with the "what ifs" but I think we should be grateful to have what we have. Not that I would object to having another 81 episodes pop up. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2013 18:28:35 GMT
Indeed the thought that there could have been more episodes missing if it wasn't for Ian Levine is a very scary thought indeed. There would certaintly have been more "Holy Grail" stories like An Unearthly Child, The Daleks, The Daleks Invasion of Earth, The Chase and a lot others. 'Pamela Nash may have destroyed the episodes out of spite' (quote may not be exact). I keep seeing that name pop up. Who was she? Was she the faceless Bureaucrat who oversaw the destruction of the Episodes? Is she a hate figure for you lot? I havent been following the episode recovery much so you'll have to forgive my ignorance. |
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Post by John Green on Dec 15, 2013 18:42:08 GMT
Imagine the Holy Grail status of The War Games 10 in that scenario! It would be the same as TP4 is now!  So...I should know this...how well could it have been Loose Cannoned? |
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Post by Vaughan Stanger on Dec 15, 2013 19:03:49 GMT
It would be the same as TP4 is now! So...I should know this...how well could it have been Loose Cannoned? Quite a lot of publicity photos to use, I suppose, but no Cura telesnaps (IIRC). Were clips ever used on, say, Blue Peter or Points of View? (I have no idea, but I'm sure someone does!) Did anyone record the audio? Thank goodness the BFI took the episodes off Enterprise's hands. |
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Post by charles drummel on Dec 15, 2013 19:42:41 GMT
So...I should know this...how well could it have been Loose Cannoned? Quite a lot of publicity photos to use, I suppose, but no Cura telesnaps (IIRC). Were clips ever used on, say, Blue Peter or Points of View? (I have no idea, but I'm sure someone does!) Did anyone record the audio? Thank goodness the BFI took the episodes off Enterprise's hands. Not sure about clips, until later on. But you're right about telesnaps (Cura had passed away before it aired), and I believe there was at least one audio recording. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2013 23:44:49 GMT
I think getting the number of missing episodes down to 97 is one hell of an achievment. If we were to tell someone from 1979 that we have the majority of The Web of Fear and the Tomb of the Cybermen back,I think they would envy us.
Who knows? Come 2063 we might have them all back or we could have serials back that haven't featured in the Omni Rumour like The Highlanders. Let's hope Phill Morris tracks some more episodes down so we appreciate more of the "old black and whites that nobody wants".
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Post by Andrew Parker on Dec 16, 2013 9:30:13 GMT
If it hasn't been for Ian Levine there's a very good chance the destruction could have continued for many more years, possibly even until the video range started up. Ian had not involvement in the BBC's decision to stop wiping material/junking oversea's sales films. this was internal policy after a number of reports and committee meetings held over whether BBC material should be kept rather than destroyed. What Ian did do was save recently returned film prints of the Daleks from destruction and help Sue Maldon track down more Doctor Who stories, mainly from Enterprises. He was also heavily involved in the search afterwards, helping to track down The Time Meddler and The War ~Machines as well as a number of orphan episodes through private collectors. |
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Post by scotttelfer on Dec 18, 2013 15:39:56 GMT
If it hasn't been for Ian Levine there's a very good chance the destruction could have continued for many more years, possibly even until the video range started up. Ian had not involvement in the BBC's decision to stop wiping material/junking oversea's sales films. this was internal policy after a number of reports and committee meetings held over whether BBC material should be kept rather than destroyed. What Ian did do was save recently returned film prints of the Daleks from destruction and help Sue Maldon track down more Doctor Who stories, mainly from Enterprises. He was also heavily involved in the search afterwards, helping to track down The Time Meddler and The War ~Machines as well as a number of orphan episodes through private collectors. I know that, but BBC Enterprises were still destroying things after formal full archiving had begun so there's a good chance if Ian Levine hadn't saved The Daleks and such stories that they would have continued regardless until somebody else checked. |
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Post by Richard Marple on Dec 19, 2013 13:30:30 GMT
In one feature DWM did mention some Dr Who filmed inserts were junked as late as 1981.
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Post by scotttelfer on Dec 19, 2013 14:19:22 GMT
I know that, but BBC Enterprises were still destroying things after formal full archiving had begun so there's a good chance if Ian Levine hadn't saved The Daleks and such stories that they would have continued regardless until somebody else checked. I seem to remember hearing about someone disregarding policy and junking material circa about 1981. Does anyone know more about this? What happened was the archive invested in a new computer at the time and decided to add a record of everything they owned. A few inserts were accidently included in the list and were promptly removed which made it look as though they had just been wiped when in reality this had happened years ago. |
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Post by scotttelfer on Dec 20, 2013 0:38:01 GMT
What happened was the archive invested in a new computer at the time and decided to add a record of everything they owned. A few inserts were accidently included in the list and were promptly removed which made it look as though they had just been wiped when in reality this had happened years ago. Since you mention it, I do remember reading that. That occured at the F&VT Library. I also remember reading that someone (maybe Sue Malden) walked in at Enterprises and discovered material had been junked despite her order that all material be referred to the F&VTL first. I thought that they were two seperate instances. Or am I just plain wrong?  I don't think so, the computer mess up definitely happened, I'm not too sure about the other story. |
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Post by Andrew Parker on Dec 20, 2013 10:40:22 GMT
Ian's find recently would have returned the War Games part 1 to the archives.
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