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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2014 9:47:53 GMT
Doctor Who used to be on at around 5.40pm on a Saturday night in the 1970's in the UK. It is now on from 8.00pm or later. Doctor Who used to be a family show aimed primarily at children. Is Dark Water / Death in Heaven suitable for a child to watch? In my opinion to screen Death in Heaven (with its subject matter of reanimated corpses turned into a Cyber army) a day before Remembrance Sunday is in particularly bad taste. Certainly, I think that two-parter was very suitable in the context you describe. I'll try to explain why!  It’s not a documentary about the horror of war. It’s escapist fictional entertainment, yet it has a solid ethical core to it that more than a few of us who grew up learning to read with Target books will recognise and appreciate.  Does the Doctor ignore the horrors perpetrated on the fallen by his returned foe? On the contrary, he fights her every step of the way. Does he win out with force of arms? On the contrary, he turns down the Mistress’s offer of a free Cyber army to fight the battles he engages in across time and space. (Just like in Colony In Space!) Does he win the day off his own bat? No, he gives way to those who know the meaning of loss and sacrifice - including those already dead, soldiers like Danny and the Brig, the latter an officer who stands and falls with his troops and died again as he lived. Does the Doctor bound off sunnily, all problems resolved? No, he feels the responsibility of a man who’s stood between Earth and those who would destroy it, and has never once failed to count the cost.  Clara knew that, and let him keep his reassuring fiction that she was happily reunited with Danny - just as he wanted her to feel at ease that her strange but familiar old friend was no longer alone, but returning to a home he bitterly misses and presently is condemned to be denied.  The Doctor has shown uncommon charity and wisdom this week, and unless the stakes are serious and real the tale is lopsided and uncompelling. Unlike the Series 3 return of the Master, the horror inflicted by the Doctor’s arch enemy wasn’t magically removed. Nor was it a blub fest saved with the power of prayer!  It was a bad scene, it really happened, and people we had grown to care for really died. That’s what makes the difference. Loss is real, it hurts. Sacrifice is to be applauded, and tragedy is to be understood and strived against reoccurring. Danny gave that boy he killed back his life at the cost of his own, and charged Clara to reunite him with his family.  So it wasn’t just the Doctor who embodied these laudable virtues this week, and I think they are very relevant in the run-up to Remembrance Day. Seriously, Lest We Forget.  Great post Paul very well argued. Doctor Who should scare children. The Deadly Assassin was scary to watch as a child. I don't think the drowning sequence should have been included as it was too real, but the rest of the plot had no grounds in real life and was escapist. My problem with Deep Water / Death in Heaven is that most people watching have experienced the loss of a relative or friend. It is fine to explore these issues in an adult drama or even in a series primarily aimed at teenagers like the Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode The Body. Most people in this country consider Doctor Who to be a family show or a children's show as it was when Russell T Davies brought it back. I think the Christopher Eccleston episodes were screened at 7.00pm in the UK. As an adult I consider the Philip Hinchcliffe era to be the best but perhaps not suitable for younger children. Barry Letts and Russell T Davies knew how to produce the series suitable for the whole family to watch with children as the priority. |
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Post by Paul McDermott on Nov 10, 2014 9:49:43 GMT
That was utterly atrocious. Flying Cybermen, the pantomime Master as a woman, Danny Pink supposed to be the "emotional Cyberman"(only the man playing him can't do emotion), more Clara nonsense, plot holes nearly large enough to fit Moffat's ego through, and a thoroughly disgusting thing at the end that I believe was a misguided tribute to Nicholas Courtney. Series 8 in general has been very poor, illogical, and seemingly aimed at American youngsters. And now we get "Santa Claus". I see some people have pointed out that by calling him "Santa Claus" it's pretty much confirmation who Doctor Who's target market today is. British kids (and British adults, for that matter) have been using "Santa Claus" rather than "Father Christmas" for about twenty years, now. On matters of Santa, I trust we've all seen this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=waSvCQSNruELooks like a base under siege to me. And just because somebody looks like Santa, doesn't mean they are Santa! Doctor Who - and not just this series - has taken a pride in reminding people that the things we take for granted, that we think are innocuous and good for all ages really need to be treated with some consideration, as they all too often can mask or be perverted by things that really aren't. If I was taking a punt, I'd think of something along the lines of a homily on this involving thoughtless consumerism and wish fulfilment at any price, no questions asked.  Worked pretty well in The Claws Of Axos, and the clip does suggest something creepy and organic... |
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Post by Will Weller on Nov 10, 2014 10:05:43 GMT
I feel I need to ask this question, I might make a thread, but I'll just see how popular it is first. I know that opinion of last nights episode is very much split, and that the show really hasn't been up to good standards recently, but if I asked you, should Doctor Who be cancelled, and you could only reply with yes or no, what would you choose??? Absolutely not. But then, I don't think that it "really hasn't been up to go good standards recently". What I meant by the "really hasn't been up to good standards recently" line is that some people think it hasn't. I personally think the new series standards are ok. |
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Post by Will Weller on Nov 10, 2014 10:14:35 GMT
Ok, I've been looking at what people have been saying about the question I posted last night, and I think I've got an answer, no. I completely forgot that finding missing Doctor Who came into it! Probably best not to post on here when I'm tired! |
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Post by Paul McDermott on Nov 10, 2014 10:15:40 GMT
Great post Paul very well argued. Thanks for the kind words, Peter. You mention Barry Letts, but you surely know he too (as the man and Terrence Dicks have recounted on many occasions, and a few commentaries as I remember) would routinely face stick under his tenure for the show being too scary. Tabloids love a media beat-up, and the BBC are always a nice big target. But quite apart from that, scary stories are things kids actually enjoy. Always have done! Pat Troughton knew this as well as Roald Dahl. Gratuitous scary stuff is not something fit for kids, I agree. But meaningfully integrated into a rattling good yarn, one that has much of redeeming social merit to commend it? I think that’s what kids should be able to choose to see, with their family. And right now, I think Doctor Who is fulfilling that wish, for many kids of all ages, all over the world.  Death is bad, sad, a definite buzzkill. I was at a cemetery at the weekend, and wasn't cosplaying Doctor Who!  But it’s something that’s bound up with being alive. All kids have to get a handle on that. And eventually, they do. How each family chooses to go about helping work that out is up to themselves, but I don’t think restricting Doctor Who to “little cotton woolies” will help the kids or the show itself. On the former, Gerard Jones wrote a rather ripping book called Killing Monsters, if you’re interested in how kids and media violence can have positive inter-relationships that may defy the initial knee-jerk response of the talkback host - which I know you aren’t. You cite the drowning scene in Deadly Assassin, and that’s an arguable case. I just don’t see that it applies here, as that was less conceptual and more in your face horror. Yet both it and the last two parter in the current run have been excellent Doctor Who. Different eras, different styles, absolutely. But the core of what the show is for, and why it matters, are still intact. And given the sterling example of the Doctor, the wide scope of possibilities the show has always offered, I think as a net positive that absolutely a good thing for kids. And grown ups, too! |
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Post by John W King on Nov 10, 2014 19:54:00 GMT
In answer to the question: - Doctor Who -cancellation - YES or NO is most emphatic NO. You have seen my critscisms of series 8 and my concerns that if the series were to continue in this style then the General Public might lose interest . Declining viewer figures might then lead to cancellation. And that's what I want to avoid. The argument that Top Gear like Dr Who makes too much money doesn't hold water.
Downton Abbey also brings in mucho dosh but as far as the professional critics are concerned this series has poor plots, poor writing and is at times illogical. Many thought the series might end last sunday but no. There wil be a new series next year. That may well be the end. This is the scenario I want the production team of Doctor Who to avoid.
Let's get back to finding missing episodes of old "classic" Who. And yes, I do know, classic doesn't always mean good!
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Post by Paul McDermott on Nov 11, 2014 2:20:35 GMT
The original run of Doctor Who got a “hiatus" in 1985, as I recall. Might rankle a few my saying this, but I don’t think it got very much better after Season 22. And certainly, it didn’t stick around much longer even though there were a few hopeful signs. (I mean, ending Season 21 with The Twin Dilemma was misfortune but opening Season 24 with Time And The Rani looks like carelessness!) Maybe if had been “properly” axed, or axed “for the right reasons”, it’d have made a better show? License fee payers should suffer for their art, doubly so? Sorry, but I don’t buy it. The way I see it, Hartnell’s first season was rather a different show to the sort of thing Troughton did in Series 4. (For the record, I like both a lot and would dearly love to see the missing ones back in the Archives and in my iTunes library.) And I can absolutely accept that there’d have been kids (and older folks) who would have not liked the changes.  So what might certain online fora have been like in 1966? You stop making Doctor Who, in order to save it, to teach a lesson to the people currently making it in ways you don’t like, what happens? A few things. No new show means less people are aware of it, both in TV production land and in TV viewer land. That means less support for it coming back. It also means that the kinds of things you felt were wrong with it at time of cancellation will be the freshest memories these groups have of the show. And that’s hardly a motivating factor to get it back on the air, retooled and renewed for a new lease on life.  It also denies new generations the chance to grow up with their own Doctors, and become members of fandom. They lose a chance to make new friends, and gain new appreciation for the legacy of the show, now older than some of the grandparents of the kids currently tuning in. And that means less support for the show seen in many ways, from tangible proof of interest in B&W eps via sales, to media coverage beyond the BBC, to other programs listening to and trying to engage with the evergreen demand for the special mix of qualities that Doctor Who has offered so many for so long. If you decide to axe the show to save it, you won’t get new Classics. If Doctor Who had ended with Season 6, we wouldn’t have the mesmerizing terror brought to us by Hinchcliffe and Holmes. If we hadn’t the opportunity to risk and make mistakes - even ones that could and should have been prevented - we wouldn’t have gained the opportunity to learn from them. Eric Roberts didn't prevent Michelle Gomez, thank goodness! People talk about the excesses of the 80s, but often fail to appreciate the context. JNT would have sold his entire collection of Hawaiian shirts for the sort of global reach Doctor Who has today. It may well be that individuals can’t see past the slick coat of gloss that the New Series has (and sometimes, that can come off to me as a tad pejorative, as though like some dunderheads I’ve known who maintain the show was better when it had "crap" effects) and thus refuse to concede that actually, over the ten years (10 years!) the New Series has been back come 2015, the success has been real, widespread, sustaining, and entirely deserved. The right people are in charge, are supported, and getting better at doing it well!  We proud few, formerly the Keepers of the Source, helped sustain the memory of the show when it went off the air in 1989. But for a co-pro blip of missed opportunities, we stood alone for the longest time. Now, both because and in some cases, despite us, Doctor Who is back on the air, stronger and more popular than we could have dreamed. All of us should rejoice in that fact, and not bay for its “final” end because it isn’t precisely like how any single one of us would prefer it. The success of the current show is a valuable ambassador for the BBC, the world over. I hold that you needed a public broadcaster to make that mad decision in 1963 to offer us these adventures in space and time. They were right to do so, they deserve the applause for standing behind it even now. Doctor Who offers delightful stimulus and lessons in character building for kids of all ages, especially the young. Working to make that happen should be a sign that just maybe, on occasion, the world isn’t a total wash. And if we seek to throw it all away, on a misguided point of principle, those people who are involved in bringing it to us every series won’t have a lot of respect for us.  The notion that we must zealously guard against sharing the magic of True Doctor Who, and decry all who would seek to continue offering the familiar but different formula to successively newer, wider and younger audiences, from the ablest dramatist to the squee-est fangirl, is misguided and destructive. How many times has the Doctor shown that there are too many elitist know-alls, and not nearly enough friends? The support Enemy and Web received was dizzying and that encouragement isn’t just the result of cranky old duffers like me. It’s the result of new fans, old and young alike, drawn to the Classics from their interest in, support for and love of, the New Series. Capaldi will usher in the latest lucky wave! Long may both camps continue to swell, long may both keep in mind that they are the same! It’s sometimes all too easy to forget. A knot in one’s hanky, I’m reliably informed, can serve as a powerful aid to memory. |
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Post by Paul McDermott on Nov 11, 2014 13:04:57 GMT
Doctor Who used to be a family show aimed primarily at children. Is Dark Water / Death in Heaven suitable for a child to watch? Additional to my earlier post, I think this link gives an insight into the mind of the man who currently is The Doctor, regarding the sort of sensitive and important issues you raise. Consider it a corollary to my previous remarks if you like, and an indicator that Peter Capaldi really is an incredibly decent chap doing the role and his audience proud: www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-11-07/peter-capaldi-sends-heartwarming-video-message-to-grieving-9-year-old-boyNow, if we can just get him to do a cover of Who Is The Doctor? for the Christmas charts... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 13:55:03 GMT
Doctor Who used to be a family show aimed primarily at children. Is Dark Water / Death in Heaven suitable for a child to watch? Additional to my earlier post, I think this link gives an insight into the mind of the man who currently is The Doctor, regarding the sort of sensitive and important issues you raise. Consider it a corollary to my previous remarks if you like, and an indicator that Peter Capaldi really is an incredibly decent chap doing the role and his audience proud: www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-11-07/peter-capaldi-sends-heartwarming-video-message-to-grieving-9-year-old-boyNow, if we can just get him to do a cover of Who Is The Doctor? for the Christmas charts... Peter Capaldi is a superb actor and makes the best Doctor since Christopher Eccleston in my opinion. His integrity is not in doubt. |
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Post by Paul McDermott on Nov 12, 2014 4:57:34 GMT
Where can we expect things to go, now Series 8 has run its course? For mine, I think there’s very good signs that can and should be recognised for what they are - harbingers of a return to true glory. And why I think that is so can be found, amongst other things, in the brilliantly encapsulated statement offered by the Doctor at the end of Death In Heaven. It’s going to be well remembered, much quoted, in times to come. Just like “I’m a citizen of the Universe and a gentleman to boot!” and "I’m a Time Lord…I walk in Eternity.” That kind of thing. 1. "I am not a good man! I'm not a bad man. I'm not a hero." These are polarities which define the expectations others have of the Doctor. But he is motivated by his own impulses, and where some see positives others can’t agree. And where he does surprise even his friends, they may not be altogether comfortable with the new take he has on things. Clara couldn’t tell if he was a good man, and he certainly doesn’t think he is. But does that matter? He doesn’t think so! Look at what he does, and doesn’t do. (What is a good man anyway? The religious resonances seen throughout Series 8 bring to mind what I think Philip Pullman was getting at with his book The Good Man Jesus And The Scoundrel Christ.) Bottom line, he’s still The Doctor. Familiar but different. The strength of the series, the secret that lies in plain sight, the heart of the TARDIS, that marvellous machine that stays the same shape long after it was a useful disguise, to counterpoint the fact that makes Doctor Who what it is. 2. "I'm definitely not a President..." Could you imagine Troughton's Doctor as a crowned ruler? Whenever Tom's got mixed up in such affairs, it was always a feint, a ruse to get an enemy offside, never a desire to seek or retain power. He was not a “serious” type, he wanted to explore, learn, help others not like himself, have fun - not at all the fast track to career advancement! And so here we are again, back where he began, where he should be. Not Lord President of the High Council as he was in the JNT era! Holding up a light to the downtrodden, a challenge to those who would sit above others - but not by taking on courtly robes himself. I doubt Clara couldn’t see through his guff about returning home to be king - or queen! I’ll expect some bittersweet moments at Christmas, it’s always an unlucky time of year for her. I wonder if they’ll be so gutsy as to kill her off and leave the Doctor with an adopted grandson to raise? Probably not, but nowadays I just don’t know! Hooray! 3. "and no, I'm not an officer." Verity as I recall had a little unease with the chummy way Pertwee’s Doctor was so comfortably ensconced with the big wigs in his run. There were other facets to his tenure, true, but he did have a tendency to hob-nob. Capaldi’s model isn’t like this at all, and that disconnect makes him much more interesting than the incarnation some initially tagged him as being in the style of. The adversarial nature strikes me as a bit more like Hartnell, which is something that should please many of us in these parts. Unlike the boastful Sixth, the new Doctor has a comical tendency to lock onto the wrong personal summation of those around him. Although I thought that was a little forced in the balance, I am glad to see he’s got some of his contrarian ethos back after a few cozy personas. Yet as the exchange with Clara directly following the dreamscape in Dark Water shows, he’s still very much the friend you can trust with your life. 4. "You know who I am? I AM... an idiot, with a box..." He’s not got tickets on himself. He’s not some ultra important Big Cheese from the Dark Time. He’s a middling student, a nobody at first blush, who's made something of himself by his own lights. A smashing bloke, brilliant and wise and compassionate, but not one who has to show off by use of fancy titles and superior airs. Danny saw bits of the Doctor, but couldn’t see the whole Time Lord for the prism of his past had clouded his present awareness. In the final analysis though, I think it’s clear that they both saw what Clara did, that they each had rare and laudable qualities in common, even if their personalities made it harder for each to recognise it, until the end. 5. "...and a screwdriver..." The Doctor works with his mind and with his hands. He's not afraid of mucking in, of building and fixing things, experimenting - he relishes the result of purposeful labour and creative solutions to intractable problems. 6. "...passing through..." He’s not about staying put. Hopefully that augurs a wider scope for adventures and companions for Capaldi's tenure! 7. "...helping out..." He’ll lend a hand - but he won’t solve all your problems. This Doctor has an obligation to everywhere and everywhen, like his fellows back on Gallifrey before the tragic mess of the Time War. That means a sense of triage, and letting the patient not develop dependency issues. If only Earth wasn’t so needy…but happily, it is his favourite planet! 8. "...learning..." He doesn’t know it all. He doesn’t pretend he does. There’s no arcane schemes and Machiavellian plots, he’s more than capable of thinking on his feet, in response to whatever the Universe throws at him. It serves as a serious contrast to his comical misunderstandings of the personal matters that he once handles with such aplomb. Whether that new deficit can be so typified is a matter for the individual but I don’t see it that way - regeneration routinely is a mix of gain and loss, of change and contrast, but this trade to me seems a welcome and encouraging balance. That the new Doctor is a little more reserved, more of a closed book, accentuates the mystery of the character and his alien nature - he’s a work in progress, and we’re discovering him as he’s discovering himself. But that doesn’t mean he’s drawn the short plank in the lottery. And for some viewers of all ages, who struggle with such matters on a daily basis, having a lead who is less comfortable with the touchy feely is a validation. Capaldi’s Doctor wants to explore, understand new things. He’s got a lot going on in between episodes, sometimes even between scenes! In helping others on his travels, he broadens his horizons. That recalled for me Troughton explaining to Jamie and Zoe with such glee why he left in the TARDIS at the end of The War Games. And in so doing, maybe just maybe, he’ll go full circle and learn how to reconnect with his long lost home. 8. "I don't need an army, I never have." This facet is to me suggestive that the sort of thing we saw in Smith’s run and to a lesser extent in Tennant’s, where there’s a gang of familiar faces ready to jump to attention at the Doctor’s word or plight, to get him out of a jam or to stand behind him or in front of him in a desperate struggle, is something that’s going to be downplayed now. Capaldi’s Doctor suggests someone supremely confident, who stands on his own, who won’t readily encourage or support others putting themselves in harm’s way when he knows the battle is his, and the risks of failure are too high. The scene at the end of Death In Heaven, where the CyberBrig gets his genuine appreciation and salute, before he flies off to die one more time alongside those he was proud to serve and command, strikes me as being very much in harmony with how Capaldi’s Doctor thinks and will act in the future. "Good lord, is that a flying Cyberman?!” He also appeared willing to sacrifice his own code to stop Clara becoming the killer she had the potential for, no small matter. However, this line also says something to me about the contingent of the het-up fans, convinced the show is circling the drain and that we need to mobilise to force change at the production office - either root and branch removal or an axing “before it’s too late”. Quick, recite the alphabet backwards! They’re the same ones whose collective nose got tweaked with the Death In Heaven opening titles, and by letting Osgood be the only one to grok that Missy once sported a beard and Nehru jacket. It suggests a friendly nudge to chill out and notice that the show is in an increasingly better place, and in the hands of a man who has the creative skill, Whostorical understanding and professional influence to keep Doctor Who safe and thriving for a long time to come. And so, that's why I think the phrase I’ve been dissecting here tells us Moffat and Capaldi really understand what Doctor Who is for, what makes it tick, why it matters - and how to do it right. Roll on Series 9! |
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Post by mattplace on Nov 12, 2014 12:04:50 GMT
Where can we expect things to go, now Series 8 has run its course? For mine, I think there’s very good signs that can and should be recognised for what they are - harbingers of a return to true glory. And why I think that is so can be found, amongst other things, in the brilliantly encapsulated statement offered by the Doctor at the end of Death In Heaven. It’s going to be well remembered, much quoted, in times to come. Just like “I’m a citizen of the Universe and a gentleman to boot!” and "I’m a Time Lord…I walk in Eternity.” That kind of thing. 1. "I am not a good man! I'm not a bad man. I'm not a hero." These are polarities which define the expectations others have of the Doctor. But he is motivated by his own impulses, and where some see positives others can’t agree. And where he does surprise even his friends, they may not be altogether comfortable with the new take he has on things. Clara couldn’t tell if he was a good man, and he certainly doesn’t think he is. But does that matter? He doesn’t think so! Look at what he does, and doesn’t do. (What is a good man anyway? The religious resonances seen throughout Series 8 bring to mind what I think Philip Pullman was getting at with his book The Good Man Jesus And The Scoundrel Christ.) Bottom line, he’s still The Doctor. Familiar but different. The strength of the series, the secret that lies in plain sight, the heart of the TARDIS, that marvellous machine that stays the same shape long after it was a useful disguise, to counterpoint the fact that makes Doctor Who what it is. 2. "I'm definitely not a President..." Could you imagine Troughton's Doctor as a crowned ruler? Whenever Tom's got mixed up in such affairs, it was always a feint, a ruse to get an enemy offside, never a desire to seek or retain power. He was not a “serious” type, he wanted to explore, learn, help others not like himself, have fun - not at all the fast track to career advancement! And so here we are again, back where he began, where he should be. Not Lord President of the High Council as he was in the JNT era! Holding up a light to the downtrodden, a challenge to those who would sit above others - but not by taking on courtly robes himself. I doubt Clara couldn’t see through his guff about returning home to be king - or queen! I’ll expect some bittersweet moments at Christmas, it’s always an unlucky time of year for her. I wonder if they’ll be so gutsy as to kill her off and leave the Doctor with an adopted grandson to raise? Probably not, but nowadays I just don’t know! Hooray! 3. "and no, I'm not an officer." Verity as I recall had a little unease with the chummy way Pertwee’s Doctor was so comfortably ensconced with the big wigs in his run. There were other facets to his tenure, true, but he did have a tendency to hob-nob. Capaldi’s model isn’t like this at all, and that disconnect makes him much more interesting than the incarnation some initially tagged him as being in the style of. The adversarial nature strikes me as a bit more like Hartnell, which is something that should please many of us in these parts. Unlike the boastful Sixth, the new Doctor has a comical tendency to lock onto the wrong personal summation of those around him. Although I thought that was a little forced in the balance, I am glad to see he’s got some of his contrarian ethos back after a few cozy personas. Yet as the exchange with Clara directly following the dreamscape in Dark Water shows, he’s still very much the friend you can trust with your life. 4. "You know who I am? I AM... an idiot, with a box..." He’s not got tickets on himself. He’s not some ultra important Big Cheese from the Dark Time. He’s a middling student, a nobody at first blush, who's made something of himself by his own lights. A smashing bloke, brilliant and wise and compassionate, but not one who has to show off by use of fancy titles and superior airs. Danny saw bits of the Doctor, but couldn’t see the whole Time Lord for the prism of his past had clouded his present awareness. In the final analysis though, I think it’s clear that they both saw what Clara did, that they each had rare and laudable qualities in common, even if their personalities made it harder for each to recognise it, until the end. 5. "...and a screwdriver..." The Doctor works with his mind and with his hands. He's not afraid of mucking in, of building and fixing things, experimenting - he relishes the result of purposeful labour and creative solutions to intractable problems. 6. "...passing through..." He’s not about staying put. Hopefully that augurs a wider scope for adventures and companions for Capaldi's tenure! 7. "...helping out..." He’ll lend a hand - but he won’t solve all your problems. This Doctor has an obligation to everywhere and everywhen, like his fellows back on Gallifrey before the tragic mess of the Time War. That means a sense of triage, and letting the patient not develop dependency issues. If only Earth wasn’t so needy…but happily, it is his favourite planet! 8. "...learning..." He doesn’t know it all. He doesn’t pretend he does. There’s no arcane schemes and Machiavellian plots, he’s more than capable of thinking on his feet, in response to whatever the Universe throws at him. It serves as a serious contrast to his comical misunderstandings of the personal matters that he once handles with such aplomb. Whether that new deficit can be so typified is a matter for the individual but I don’t see it that way - regeneration routinely is a mix of gain and loss, of change and contrast, but this trade to me seems a welcome and encouraging balance. That the new Doctor is a little more reserved, more of a closed book, accentuates the mystery of the character and his alien nature - he’s a work in progress, and we’re discovering him as he’s discovering himself. But that doesn’t mean he’s drawn the short plank in the lottery. And for some viewers of all ages, who struggle with such matters on a daily basis, having a lead who is less comfortable with the touchy feely is a validation. Capaldi’s Doctor wants to explore, understand new things. He’s got a lot going on in between episodes, sometimes even between scenes! In helping others on his travels, he broadens his horizons. That recalled for me Troughton explaining to Jamie and Zoe with such glee why he left in the TARDIS at the end of The War Games. And in so doing, maybe just maybe, he’ll go full circle and learn how to reconnect with his long lost home. 8. "I don't need an army, I never have." This facet is to me suggestive that the sort of thing we saw in Smith’s run and to a lesser extent in Tennant’s, where there’s a gang of familiar faces ready to jump to attention at the Doctor’s word or plight, to get him out of a jam or to stand behind him or in front of him in a desperate struggle, is something that’s going to be downplayed now. Capaldi’s Doctor suggests someone supremely confident, who stands on his own, who won’t readily encourage or support others putting themselves in harm’s way when he knows the battle is his, and the risks of failure are too high. The scene at the end of Death In Heaven, where the CyberBrig gets his genuine appreciation and salute, before he flies off to die one more time alongside those he was proud to serve and command, strikes me as being very much in harmony with how Capaldi’s Doctor thinks and will act in the future. "Good lord, is that a flying Cyberman?!” He also appeared willing to sacrifice his own code to stop Clara becoming the killer she had the potential for, no small matter. However, this line also says something to me about the contingent of the het-up fans, convinced the show is circling the drain and that we need to mobilise to force change at the production office - either root and branch removal or an axing “before it’s too late”. Quick, recite the alphabet backwards! They’re the same ones whose collective nose got tweaked with the Death In Heaven opening titles, and by letting Osgood be the only one to grok that Missy once sported a beard and Nehru jacket. It suggests a friendly nudge to chill out and notice that the show is in an increasingly better place, and in the hands of a man who has the creative skill, Whostorical understanding and professional influence to keep Doctor Who safe and thriving for a long time to come. And so, that's why I think the phrase I’ve been dissecting here tells us Moffat and Capaldi really understand what Doctor Who is for, what makes it tick, why it matters - and how to do it right. Roll on Series 9! Shame they forgot to make it entertaining... |
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Post by George D on Nov 12, 2014 16:24:38 GMT
When i look at the line to quoted, why couldn't the reason be character? I'm sorry but the quote you gave tends to reinforce to me that the direction Is romance/love which Is perhaps what a young girl would like. My guess would be 12-year-old American girls. I expect you're serious. I'm pretty sure that's not the Beeb's view, or that of much of the audience. Doctor Who has always been a bit of an acquired taste, and that's perfectly okay. As McGoohan said when he made The Prisoner the way he did, he wasn't trying to make Coca Cola. There's many many things in the new run that are more like how it used to be than it once was. Laurence has noted a few things, as have others. Yet there's also some aspects which are pretty much universals of story telling, that offer a distinctive appeal to a very broad audience, perhaps precisely because they are really pretty uncommon on telly now. Consider this bit from Dark Water, please: It's hard to find a lead in a modern adventure series acting like this, or written so well. All too often, it's much more "manly" for a rugged individualist to do the opposite, to have booted Clara into the volcano. Or let her choose to be a murderer, at the end of Death In Heaven. Yet this isn't so surprising. The Doctor was always a hell of a male role model! As I said, Doctor Who may be a family show but it's not always for everyone's taste. Nor need it be! Yet little bits like the snippet above (there are many others if you really look for them) are hardly a deviation from who the character has always been. With respect to the chap at the helm of the show, he's got the odd award under his belt for writing telly well. Even though I don't like all of those things, or like the ones I do equally well, I can concede that. I don't see a tired guy now. I see someone who's been turning an ocean liner around, carefully and whilst keeping the passengers out of the sea. Capaldi's Doctor to me offers a wonderful mix of familiar but different, of brilliance, integrity, uncommon wisdom, iconoclastic dissent, mad energy and (finally, finally) reserve and quiet emotion. I don't think he's all the way there yet, I doubt he does too. His Time Legs are still coming in, as it were! The show has to adapt to him, as the viewers do. I do think more of the latter will come around and see what a treat they've been offered, and I'm sure Series 9 will be the start of what we'll look back on as his more authentic era - just as Season 7 was to Season 8 in the old money. |
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Post by Tony Ingram on Nov 12, 2014 16:32:42 GMT
Seriously, they know where their largest audience share is. It's not twelve year old girls. American or otherwise. It's people in their twenties and thirties.
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Post by Paul McDermott on Nov 12, 2014 18:35:09 GMT
Shame they forgot to make it entertaining... Did they, Matt? Not entertaining. Well, I wonder. Let's just look at last week's ep, Death In Heaven. Action? Yep, big plane going down in flames and the Doctor falling out of the sky. Classic era links? Plenty here, from old threats returned to menace Earth anew to old friends remembered. So many visual cues and little flourishes, from the Cyberman under the tarp in the morgue so evocative of The Moonbase to the many links to The Invasion. Actual vintage Cyber head, not in a glass case as set dressing but thrown down as a challenge! Scary moments? Yeah, this is taken care of. The evil scheme is conceptually horrific. It plays on fears as old as humanity has been around. People complained! Just like old times! Real stakes, not pretending? Osgood dies, dust to dust. Danny does so several times. They didn't get better, and the world was not magically made unharmed at the end. The cost was real, the damage and memories remain. New things? Hello, The Mistress?? A surprise new take on an old and popular character, brought back with a new level of competence and mesmerizingly distinctive evilness. Dramatic tonality? There were jokes, and they were utterly necessary to lighten the mood. Recall the way Kate Stewart so confidently scares off the first wave of Cybermen outside St. Paul's. Cool, calm, collected - just like her Dad! And recall how she connects with the Doctor at their first meeting, at the same time. Recall how deliciously the Mistress plays with pretty much everybody. Or Capaldi's casual disdain for lots of things! There's so many other things too. Difficult choices e.g. Danny's Cybernization, the Doctor's being faced with a terrible personal choice to stop Clara making it herself. The tragic solitary scene of the Doctor dealing with still being unable to find Gallifrey. Noble sacrifices. Real jeopardy. A longer running time, to fit it all in! If none of these things are what you consider entertaining, fair enough. I don't know why you want to watch, or why in Classic era eps any of these sort of elements are more valid to you. But to say Death In Heaven was dull (not entertaining) just doesn't make sense to me. You can say Series 8 was not equally exciting every week, just as you can for any other Classic or New one. And I certainly agree with that sentiment. All I'm saying is that it's improving and Series 9 is bound to build on the strengths we've seen this year, a very nice thing to look forward to. But to each their own, of course! |
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Post by Paul McDermott on Nov 12, 2014 18:51:40 GMT
When i look at the line to quoted, why couldn't the reason be character? I'm sorry but the quote you gave tends to reinforce to me that the direction Is romance/love which Is perhaps what a young girl would like. Thanks for the perhaps, George! Can I suggest another way of looking at what you're saying? If I was this pesky teenage girl contingent you think is being unduly catered to in Doctor Who, I might offer that you're making a cheap shot aimed at putting in a box what you personally don't like to the exclusion of all else happening on screen, and say it's down to me and viewers like me. There are far easier ways to get romance in a commercial hour of TV than Doctor Who. Yes, there's a willingness to address such issues in Series 8 as there has been since Rose turned up on our screens in 2005 but only as one facet of the whole gem. But things have moved on a bit since Rose, and Martha. If you were watching close, no River Song either! Capaldi's Doctor is no longer quite the smooth operator he was in recent years. Maybe the teenage girls like a challenge? Can I suggest that it's a bit simplistic to suppose that teenage girls aren't maybe tuning in to the show for all the other elements that make Doctor Who worth watching? The things you and I and the bedrock of the audience have always liked? The ones the show has been associated with for far longer, the ones that in Series 8 are being knocked up several notches and that show real signs of becoming even more deftly improved in the 10th anniversary year of the New Series. Please try to look at the show as it now is formulated with fresh eyes, compare and contrast what Series 8 just gave us with what we've had in the run up. I honestly think it's pretty easy to see a genuine and deliberate shift toward a new mix of the show's elements that favour the sort of things fans of the better examples of the Classic era can take hearts in! |
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But it’s something that’s bound up with being alive. All kids have to get a handle on that. And eventually, they do. How each family chooses to go about helping work that out is up to themselves, but I don’t think restricting Doctor Who to “little cotton woolies” will help the kids or the show itself. On the former, Gerard Jones wrote a rather ripping book called Killing Monsters, if you’re interested in how kids and media violence can have positive inter-relationships that may defy the initial knee-jerk response of the talkback host - which I know you aren’t. 
