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Post by stevendoig on Aug 20, 2013 20:35:52 GMT
So, when they were making a film copy of the episode, my understanding is they pointed a camera at a special flat screen which showed a playback of the episode. One would presume the operator would want to be careful not to shoot 'beyond the image' and film the edge of the screen etc, so i'm presuming a wee bit of the image is lost. I'm also wondering if comparing say telesnaps with surviving film prints might NOT be particularly useful as , again, I might be right n saying that some old TV screens hid some of the image from a broadcast anyway - or am I just a big blether?
Cheers
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Post by simonashby on Aug 20, 2013 20:55:53 GMT
Telesnaps would be even more zoomed in, wouldn't they? I know that TRs of Inferno actually had marginally more viewing area than the NTSC tapes!
Think it's about 5%. There was a good website that compared the image of the quad tape and film copy of an episode Forsyte Saga, but can no longer find it.
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Post by Brad Phipps on Aug 20, 2013 21:51:36 GMT
They vary from print to print. The Nigerian copy of The War Machines 2 was more zoomed in than David Gee's Australian copy of the same episode.
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Post by Steven Sigel on Aug 20, 2013 22:06:00 GMT
It depends a) on the monitor you use (i.e. does it show the entire image) and b) on whether you zoom in the film camera at all.
There is nothing about film recording that inherently causes loss of image.
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Post by stevendoig on Aug 21, 2013 6:38:25 GMT
okay cheers!
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Post by Richard Bignell on Aug 21, 2013 7:00:39 GMT
You can get some idea of how much of the original picture was lost with a telerecording if you take a look at the images at the bottom of this article on the Restoration Team website. On the right is the original 35mm film insert and on the left, the 16mm telerecording. www.purpleville.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/rtwebsite/quality.htm |
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Post by simonashby on Aug 21, 2013 8:16:28 GMT
Surely some image would have been lost in the original telecline process though?
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Post by Justin Brown on Aug 21, 2013 9:30:26 GMT
They vary from print to print. The Nigerian copy of The War Machines 2 was more zoomed in than David Gee's Australian copy of the same episode. From 'Wiped!" I gather telerecording was repeated as needed by market (internal and external) demands. Despite calibration, it's clear there must have been small variations. I'd hope that new recoveries of existing material are examined to see if they are a better for digitisation, release or broadcast than what's currently held. |
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Aug 21, 2013 20:14:59 GMT
No idea where I saw it, but there is a video where you see the b/w telerecording and then the colour video tape of the same scene. That is of course the way to check: With something that you have in both formats (I wish they'd included a chroma recovery to finish offthe comparison). It was a scene with the third doctor, but probably one of the first doctor's bonus features.
Of course, the TV never shows the edges, so I assume shows were (or are still) recorded with space to waste.
Away from DW, I can tell you that "The Caesars" is really cropped to the point of cutting off the edges of the credits & titles. That is the worst example I know.
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Post by brianfretwell on Aug 22, 2013 22:23:57 GMT
No idea where I saw it, but there is a video where you see the b/w telerecording and then the colour video tape of the same scene. That is of course the way to check: With something that you have in both formats (I wish they'd included a chroma recovery to finish offthe comparison). It was a scene with the third doctor, but probably one of the first doctor's bonus features. Of course, the TV never shows the edges, so I assume shows were (or are still) recorded with space to waste. Away from DW, I can tell you that "The Caesars" is really cropped to the point of cutting off the edges of the credits & titles. That is the worst example I know. Was that "The Terror of the Autons" where a clip in colour survived as an introduction to the new assistant (Jo) on Nationwide or suchlike? "The Man in Room 17" has some of the credits (Right hand side) cropped as well. |
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Aug 23, 2013 12:46:19 GMT
Yes, it was.
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Post by simonashby on Aug 23, 2013 13:15:37 GMT
This is an example: colourrecovery.wikispaces.com/Full+gamut+colour+recoveryMind you, some of the TR frames have more image than the video. It's all in the transfers as well. Comparing the Abominable Snowmen shots on the RT website will not be accurate as the film would have been zoomed in on the original telecline, so in fact shows more picture area than on the original tape. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2013 14:08:55 GMT
Away from DW, I can tell you that "The Caesars" is really cropped to the point of cutting off the edges of the credits & titles. That is the worst example I know. I've seen quite a few examples of this myself too. Sometimes t/rs of old series used in Network releases crop the titles, occasionally badly (I forget which ones offhand but I have 'em here somewhere). |
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Post by Pete Morris on Aug 23, 2013 14:37:13 GMT
Surely some image would have been lost in the original telecline process though? Such a shame that even the surviving episodes have lost a lot. |
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Post by brianfretwell on Aug 24, 2013 23:00:13 GMT
On the other hand programs originally filmed have gained image area from less zoomed in transfers from new, more stable telecine machines.
Win some lose some.
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