Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2013 16:42:58 GMT
My guess would be that it's ZDF we have to thank for archiving the programme rather than the BBC. It would make more sense on past record.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2013 19:03:14 GMT
My guess would be that it's ZDF we have to thank for archiving the programme rather than the BBC. It would make more sense on past record. True, but my assumption the BBC retained it is based on the situation between them and ZDF regarding the TOTP inserts and colour "Paul Temple" episodes which from several accounts on this forum, it seems that ZDF will only sell them back if the BBC coughs up some cash... which the BBC are unwilling to do. Plus there was some bits from this show in the Bob Pratt tapes so it was certainly kicking around when Bob accessed it. |
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Post by Chris Barratt on Mar 6, 2013 11:05:33 GMT
I recall reading somewhere that the performances with the audience & dancers were recorded in one big session without Jimmy Savile or Elfi von Kalckreuth present. In time-honoured JS fashion, the links were recorded quickly and separately to the bulk of the show, immediately prior to it all being edited for transmission.
The one 'mystery' lies in the presences of Dusty Springfield in the opening credits when she is neither included in existing masters of the show nor on the reel as a separate performance.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2013 11:57:02 GMT
My guess would be that it's ZDF we have to thank for archiving the programme rather than the BBC. It would make more sense on past record. True, but my assumption the BBC retained it is based on the situation between them and ZDF regarding the TOTP inserts and colour "Paul Temple" episodes which from several accounts on this forum, it seems that ZDF will only sell them back if the BBC coughs up some cash Yes, true, but this programme might be different in that it was a true co-production between the companies (with screen credit reflecting this). With "Disco", ZDF merely bought in BBC-shot TOTP clips to use in their own show (which they now refuse to let the BBC have back even though it's clear they are bought in and - for example - sometimes feature a clearly visible TOTP-labelled drum kit!). Just thinking out loud here and I don't know what the exact situation might be between the two companies (and it might vary in individual instances). I do wish they'd sort it out though!  . |
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Post by Liam Joseph on Mar 6, 2013 20:28:48 GMT
Just thinking out loud here and I don't know what the exact situation might be between the two companies (and it might vary in individual instances). I do wish they'd sort it out though! . Me too! It would really enrich the TOTP archive if they got these clips back, particularly from the Glam Rock era. Plenty of T Rex and Sweet and a smattering of Slade. And the mighty Uriah Heep doing The Wizard. You'd think they could come to some agreement to get this invaluable footage back. |
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Post by Dave Woods on Mar 6, 2013 21:01:36 GMT
With "Disco", ZDF merely bought in BBC-shot TOTP clips to use in their own show (which they now refuse to let the BBC have back even though it's clear they are bought in and - for example - sometimes feature a clearly visible TOTP-labelled drum kit!). To be fair, the TOTP clips in Disco were usually introduced as coming from "Top Of The Pops BBC London", or similar. So this wouldn't have looked all that odd. Do we know if ZDF actually have the original insert tapes? I'd have guessed that they wouldn't have. They clearly don't have raw footage from Disco itself because all the compilations - including DVDs - include all the on-screen captions from the broadcast shows. The TOTP performances in Disco are frequently interspersed with shots of the Disco audience dancing. So I'd have thought anything "returned" to the BBC would come complete with those. So the BBC would be showing TOTP clips with the Disco logo in the background... |
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Post by Chris Barratt on Mar 6, 2013 21:45:15 GMT
I *suspect* that those 'mute' TOTP's were recorded as such to send to the likes of ZDF, to begin with at least (70/71/72). The version of "Get It On" on a Disco 71 actually has the first couple of seconds of 'Just My Imagination' at the end, which suggests it was taken from a TOTP and not a performance reel. There could be loads of TOTP uncatalogued in the ZDF archive - full shows and clips. They are unlikely to have wiped what they sent, but also unlikely (given it wasn't *theirs* as such) to be listed. The current stand-off is annoying, but I understand Ray Langstone knows a bit more about this
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SydV
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Post by SydV on Mar 6, 2013 22:54:45 GMT
Does anyone know the actual recording date(s) for the show? The Who's performance was taped on 16th December 1969. Presumably all of the acts that appeared in front of the audience were recorded on the same day. The Rolling Stones taped their sequence (with no audience) on 12th December. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2013 23:43:31 GMT
Does anyone know the actual recording date(s) for the show? The Who's performance was taped on 16th December 1969. Presumably all of the acts that appeared in front of the audience were recorded on the same day. The Rolling Stones taped their sequence (with no audience) on 12th December. Thank you Syd. Indeed being a "big" production with Johnny Harris and his orchestra, dancers etc it would had been prohibitive to had recorded stuff with the audience in more than one session so 16th December 1969 saw a fascinating array of acts assemble together for that show. We're talking of an NME Pollwinner type assembly of talent there! People look at those shows from 1964 and 1965 and find it staggering all that talent was in the same building for one show... "Pop Go The Sixties" is almost as staggering. As for the ZDF stand off... absolutely infuriating given how the TOTP material they have would had livened up many a dull edition of TOTP2. Chris does make an interesting point given there are three muted links shows from 1971 the year Disco got underway though I've always found it odd they showed Bobbie Gentry from February 1970 unless for some freak reason that song suddenly became a hit in Germany in 1971. It does get one salivating at the possibility that ZDF may have more stuff stashed in their vaults that they chose not to use in Disco... though I'm not holding my breath either. |
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Post by Peter Stirling on Mar 7, 2013 0:05:39 GMT
I recall reading somewhere that the performances with the audience & dancers were recorded in one big session without Jimmy Savile or Elfi von Kalckreuth present. In time-honoured JS fashion, the links were recorded quickly and separately to the bulk of the show, immediately prior to it all being edited for transmission. The one 'mystery' lies in the presences of Dusty Springfield in the opening credits when she is neither included in existing masters of the show nor on the reel as a separate performance. I think it was just a simple case of Dusty being too busy to make the recording date? Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think the BBC had even archive print of her singing her breakthrough 'I only want to be with you'? which presumably is the title they would have used due to its significants and upbeat nature ? ..and one thing the BBC would have never done in those days would have borrowed anything from ITV. |
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Mar 7, 2013 0:24:44 GMT
Peter, forgive me correcting a point.
It was RARE that ITV and BBC borrowed stuff from each other - but it did happen, even from the early days.
Much of this was for news broadcasts, but there were occasional clips from entertainment shows too.
VERY VERY RARE, but it did OCCASIONALLY happen.
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Post by Peter Stirling on Mar 7, 2013 11:56:57 GMT
Peter, forgive me correcting a point. It was RARE that ITV and BBC borrowed stuff from each other - but it did happen, even from the early days. Much of this was for news broadcasts, but there were occasional clips from entertainment shows too. VERY VERY RARE, but it did OCCASIONALLY happen. Nothing to forgive Ray, your up to date with what went on a lot better than I am. Just thought of something else.. Billy Cotton Jrn. once boasted he finished Dusty's UK career, apparently she was 'difficult' to work with and he was fed up with her upseting some of his staff .....so PGTS may have been a turning point perhaps? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2013 13:18:25 GMT
"Billy Cotton Jrn. once boasted he finished Dusty's UK career, apparently she was 'difficult' to work with and he was fed up with her upseting some of his staff .....so PGTS may have been a turning point perhaps?"
Not a particularly brilliant thing to boast about, methinks ...
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Post by Oliver Roemer on Mar 7, 2013 21:00:16 GMT
About two years ago, I was e-mailing the ZDF Kulturkanal, then known as "ZDF Theaterkanal", asking them if they could repeat PGTS on this channel. Unfortunately, the change to the new channel name and a new programme concept were in the wings and I never got an answer to my sugestion. My question was based on the fact, that "ZDF Theater" had just repeated an old co-produced tv special with the Bee Gees from 1968 (together with belgian tv station RTBF) as well as some old specials with Abi and Esther Ofarim and a documentary on "Cliff In Berlin" from 1970.
Given the fact, that the new digital tv programmes of ZDF (ZDF Neo, ZDF Kultur and ZDF Info) all now show a huge amount BBC content bought in from BBC Germany in Cologne on their channels (including, for example, various episodes of "Later with Jools Holland") I don't think, their relations to each other are so bad, it even seems to me that they re-istalled that old partnership from the late 60's / early 70's again.
Also, there's always a chance to show a thing like PGTS on their european corporation channels like "3Sat" or "Arte" in Austria/Switzerland and in France, the latter even showed a programme compiled from old TOTP clips from the 70's a few years back in summer.
Regards, Oliver.
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Post by Dave Woods on Mar 7, 2013 21:54:01 GMT
I *suspect* that those 'mute' TOTP's were recorded as such to send to the likes of ZDF, to begin with at least (70/71/72). I have suspected the same thing. The clip of Tony Christie's Amarillo shown in the January 1972 Disco actually has Jimmy Savile popping up in a bubble introducing the song - mute - during the introduction. I'd have thought they'd either have sent compilation reels of individual performances or whole shows - and indeed the way the clips tend to come in a little late and leave a little early might suggest the latter. But I don't think either way makes it more likely they kept the tapes. |
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