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Post by G D Peck on Apr 12, 2012 11:16:39 GMT
Just wanted to thank Jon Preddle for the Australia update on BroaDWcast. Fascinating reading - I was able to pinpoint when I first started watching Doctor Who! Carnival of Monsters 2 19th of May 1978!! The article brought back great memories of new season launches and repeats. Thanks Jon really appreciate the work you have done.
The thing that strikes me as interesting is the following…
If Airlock and Underwater Menace 2 found their way out into the public/private collectors from this batch hopefully more have too. Slim chance I know but gives me some hope!
Do we know if any of the other returned episodes might have come from this consignment? eg: Evil of the Daleks 2, The Faceless Ones 3 etc
I know The Final Test, whilst returned from the ABC, was a separate return.
Curious to know.
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Post by Richard Tipple on Apr 12, 2012 12:38:23 GMT
I'll stick my neck out here and wait to be corrected by the powers that be BUT...
One of the reasons I believed Airlock and Underwater Menace 2 were such significant finds was due to the fact that they were from this returned 1975 batch. A batch that, as I understand it, nothing else has been returned from yet..
If these two found there way home... perhaps there is a glimmer of hope for the others?
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Post by Greg H on Apr 12, 2012 15:37:26 GMT
Good stuff. I always look forward to reading Mr Preddle's research. As noted above it is indeed interesting if this batch is the origin of the two prints recently returned and, well, we can hope that some more prints from this batch found their way out of the BBC in some manner  I would be very interested to read more details on this. |
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Post by adamjordan on Apr 12, 2012 17:33:07 GMT
Well as someone (I can''t remember who) remembers that returned film canisters left in the loading bay had a habit of 'walking' then such a big consignment may well have attracted the discreet attention of an employee and obviously did!
What is still slightly worrying is that we only ever get 'orphan' episodes from these private collector returns. Would be wonderful for a whole story to have been 'liberated'.
If the BBC had kept some bloomin' records of what was destroyed we would know for certain what was and what wasn't.
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Post by John Andersen on Apr 12, 2012 18:04:51 GMT
I'll stick my neck out here and wait to be corrected by the powers that be BUT... One of the reasons I believed Airlock and Underwater Menace 2 were such significant finds was due to the fact that they were from this returned 1975 batch. A batch that, as I understand it, nothing else has been returned from yet.. If these two found there way home... perhaps there is a glimmer of hope for the others? For only these two episodes to end up in somebody's collection, it appears as if somebody might have just grabbed a handful of random films and taken them away before they could be destroyed. Depending on how many people were helping themselves to films and the frequency this was done, that might increase chances of finding more lost programs down the road, but there are no guarantees that they managed to get their hands on more lost Hartnell or Troughton episodes. If I recall correctly, I don't think any film collector has come forward with more than one missing episode for one Doctor Who story. If any film collector came forward with multiple episodes to complete a lost Doctor Who story, that could be a first. |
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Post by Greg H on Apr 12, 2012 18:07:28 GMT
Well as someone (I can''t remember who) remembers that returned film canisters left in the loading bay had a habit of 'walking' then such a big consignment may well have attracted the discreet attention of an employee and obviously did! What is still slightly worrying is that we only ever get 'orphan' episodes from these private collector returns. Would be wonderful for a whole story to have been 'liberated'. If the BBC had kept some bloomin' records of what was destroyed we would know for certain what was and what wasn't. Possibly not though. An employee who filed a piece of paperwork saying a 16mm print has been junked could just as easily have taken said print home if they wanted to I guess. |
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Post by Richard Marple on Apr 12, 2012 19:31:16 GMT
If there are more undiscovered episodes in private collections it's interesting that no-one has come forward since the announcement of the most recent find.
Some previous appeals haven't lead to much else being found. I remember there was one fairly big announcement a few years ago after an episode of Dad's Army was recovered. I can't remember if that was from a collector or overseas TV station.
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Post by Greg H on Apr 12, 2012 19:50:58 GMT
Episode hunting is very hit and miss now the foreign archives have been pretty much exhausted, as I see it. There is absolutely no way to tell how much missing who is out there in the wild, could be a lot, could be none. I intuitively reckon there is more, but its a complete needle in a haystack........
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Post by willcosens on Apr 12, 2012 21:06:30 GMT
You mean a needle in several haystacks.
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Post by Jon Preddle on Apr 12, 2012 21:31:28 GMT
Just wanted to thank Jon Preddle for the Australia update on BroaDWcast. Do we know if any of the other returned episodes might have come from this consignment? eg: Evil of the Daleks 2, The Faceless Ones 3 etc Thanks for your comments! The labels on the recovered film can of part 2 of "Evil" do not give any indication that the film had come from Australia. I'd suspect that the consignment of films would have been sent sans cans, as they would have added considerably to the weight of the shipment. In fact, the film can label does note the 1968 repeat date on it, so I wonder whether that repeat was done off a film copy rather than the original video tape... (?) |
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Post by Greg H on Apr 12, 2012 21:49:15 GMT
Probably a really obvious point that has already been thought of, but are there any physical cuts to the prints of evil and faceless etc which would tally with cuts made to the Australian prints? I honestly can't remember if there are cuts to these episodes or not.
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Post by Steven Sigel on Apr 12, 2012 21:59:53 GMT
Probably a really obvious point that has already been thought of, but are there any physical cuts to the prints of evil and faceless etc which would tally with cuts made to the Australian prints? I honestly can't remember if there are cuts to these episodes or not. Evil is not cut IIRC, not sure about Faceless Ones... |
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Post by Steven Sigel on Apr 12, 2012 22:01:34 GMT
Just wanted to thank Jon Preddle for the Australia update on BroaDWcast. Do we know if any of the other returned episodes might have come from this consignment? eg: Evil of the Daleks 2, The Faceless Ones 3 etc Thanks for your comments! The labels on the recovered film can of part 2 of "Evil" do not give any indication that the film had come from Australia. I'd suspect that the consignment of films would have been sent sans cans, as they would have added considerably to the weight of the shipment. In fact, the film can label does note the 1968 repeat date on it, so I wonder whether that repeat was done off a film copy rather than the original video tape... (?) If they had repeated from film, I think it would have been 35mm rather than 16mm -- the BBC didn't consider 16mm T/Rs high enough quality to run on BBC 1. Therefore, I suspect it was repeated from the VT. Possibly it was T/R'd again from the repeat? |
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Post by Ross Mann on Apr 12, 2012 22:54:04 GMT
Curiosity has gotten the better of me now. Jon's fantastic research has underscored something I read about the ABC's archives being "cleaned out" around '75 (when the transition to colour was made) apparently alot of other locally made programmes were chucked out aswell! Even some early colour stuff is missing (citation needed lol) if only they had of waited a couple of years (say late '77 early '78) to return all of the above mentioned Dr Who's, we might (I did say might) have a few more better Troughtons to choose from!! Not that I'm complaining mind you, he is still my favorite Doctor even if I wasn't lucky enough to be around when he was the "current" doctor!!
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Post by Jon Preddle on Apr 12, 2012 23:45:15 GMT
If they had repeated from film, I think it would have been 35mm rather than 16mm -- the BBC didn't consider 16mm T/Rs high enough quality to run on BBC 1. Therefore, I suspect it was repeated from the VT. Possibly it was T/R'd again from the repeat? The label says Master Print Do Not Cut BBC Film Recording Positive, with the dates of original tx plus the repeat. What would a Master Print Positive be used for? |
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I would be very interested to read more details on this.
