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Post by Maurice Harfmann on Dec 18, 2011 21:59:18 GMT
That's exactly my point, and because there where never any recordings of Germany receiving copies, maby they weren't asked to send them back and instead kept them?
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Post by Richard Bignell on Dec 18, 2011 22:13:26 GMT
We can't say that there weren't any records. There probably were, as Enterprises would have needed to keep track of their assets. It's just that we don't have them.
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Post by George D on Dec 18, 2011 22:32:45 GMT
Im curious if these are the same prints found in the villers house. Its interesting that there were 4 and not 6. It makes me wonder if the other two were either in mislabeled cans or swiped.
In the 80s and 90s, did they check the contents of cans before disposing or just the labels? im curious
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Post by Ross Mann on Dec 19, 2011 0:11:34 GMT
Im curious if these are the same prints found in the villers house. Its interesting that there were 4 and not 6. It makes me wonder if the other two were either in mislabeled cans or swiped. In the 80s and 90s, did they check the contents of cans before disposing or just the labels? im curious Please correct me if I'm wrong (again lol) but I seem to recall reading (I've still got the contemporary issue of DWM) that 1 or two of the cans that were found in that cupboard were labeled "Fury From The Deep"? Interesting gossip about these episodes anyhow, instead of debating the topic why doesn't (if it hasn't been done already) simply make a phone call and find out once and for all.
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Post by Jon Preddle on Dec 19, 2011 3:35:47 GMT
We can't say that there weren't any records. There probably were, as Enterprises would have needed to keep track of their assets. It's just that we don't have them. One from July 1965 does exist; it's covered in "Wiped" (p. 311-313). Seemingly random groups of stories from An Unearthly Child to The Crusade were sent to various countries, mainly in greater Europe. Of them only one, Cyprus, ended up taking up the series. Presumably those "unsold" countries sent the episodes back, or forwarded them onto whoever was in the next batch of countries (a list that hasn't been found). One would assume that those countries, such as in Africa and the Caribbean, that did take up the series from 1966 are identified in subsequent lists, along with other "unsold" countries (such as Denmark).
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Dec 19, 2011 4:49:31 GMT
Im curious if these are the same prints found in the villers house. Its interesting that there were 4 and not 6. It makes me wonder if the other two were either in mislabeled cans or swiped. In the 80s and 90s, did they check the contents of cans before disposing or just the labels? im curious Please correct me if I'm wrong (again lol) but I seem to recall reading (I've still got the contemporary issue of DWM) that 1 or two of the cans that were found in that cupboard were labeled "Fury From The Deep"? Interesting gossip about these episodes anyhow, instead of debating the topic why doesn't (if it hasn't been done already) simply make a phone call and find out once and for all. Yes, I wish people who report such obscure leads as this would not have the validity of the lead immediately debated. It almost goes without saying that if the prints were there, they would have been returned, etc. etc. However, occasionally such tiny bits of information pay off, so I think people should be encouraged to raise them! For example, a projectionist in Buenos Aires had mentioned something about the run time of the Argentinian print of the film "Metropolis," and that tidbit of information resulted in a recovery of a nearly complete print of the film, lost for decades. That prints of the Ice Warriors were sent to Germany probably amounts to nothing, but there is a small chance that it could be valuable information. Or, if not this lead, another similar one might prove useful.
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Post by Dave Green on Dec 19, 2011 6:20:32 GMT
A lead is a lead, asking some questions can't hurt. We just need someone who can speak German?
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Post by Richard Bignell on Dec 19, 2011 8:20:13 GMT
Yes, I wish people who report such obscure leads as this would not have the validity of the lead immediately debated. Why on earth not? It's only by asking questions and thinking about the potential source of the information that you can ascertain whether a supposed lead is worth following or not. The absolute worst route to take is just to take everything at face value and query nothing.
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Post by Alan Grover on Dec 19, 2011 8:48:09 GMT
I can! It's the only language other than English I can speak, but I'm quite proud of it! ;D
Sorry, I haven't read anything above your post... what would you like me to do?
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Post by Greg H on Dec 19, 2011 14:01:57 GMT
Yes, I wish people who report such obscure leads as this would not have the validity of the lead immediately debated. Why on earth not? It's only by asking questions and thinking about the potential source of the information that you can ascertain whether a supposed lead is worth following or not. The absolute worst route to take is just to take everything at face value and query nothing. I am with Richard on this one. A healthy degree of scepticism about everything in life goes a long way towards keeping you sane. Its best to apply a bit of scientific method and look for provable facts for yourself. I will be very interested to see if this post opens up a new avenue for research and also hearing any story that may arise from this. Naturally I would be absolutely thrilled to complete the Ice Warriors, but its best not to get too excited about things too soon.
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Post by Maurice Harfmann on Dec 19, 2011 14:43:16 GMT
A lead is a lead, asking some questions can't hurt. We just need someone who can speak German? I'm a native Austrian, so this won't be a problem, I just thought it might be better if someone of a higher rank would contact them, because I don't think that they'd take a normal student seriously.
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Post by John Andersen on Dec 19, 2011 17:15:19 GMT
Please correct me if I'm wrong (again lol) but I seem to recall reading (I've still got the contemporary issue of DWM) that 1 or two of the cans that were found in that cupboard were labeled "Fury From The Deep"? Interesting gossip about these episodes anyhow, instead of debating the topic why doesn't (if it hasn't been done already) simply make a phone call and find out once and for all. Yes, I wish people who report such obscure leads as this would not have the validity of the lead immediately debated. It almost goes without saying that if the prints were there, they would have been returned, etc. etc. However, occasionally such tiny bits of information pay off, so I think people should be encouraged to raise them! When the person offers something to base their lead on, such as an article, it is quite different than somebody saying "I have a friend who has a friend that has another friend that has a film collection." Although leads should be met with a certain amount of skepticism, I think it would be best to point them towards somebody currently in the field looking for lost material that can listen to the lead, and potentially follow up on it. If people get the idea that they are only wasting their time because of what they perceive as a bad reception for coming forward with their information, then we could end up losing good leads in the future. It is just a thought to ponder. I appreciate Maurice for coming forward with this. I apologize if any of my posts concerning the article were taken as being insulting in any way.
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Post by Ewan Montague on Dec 19, 2011 17:50:48 GMT
how often did the bbc send off viewing prints in this way? where there's one incidence there will be others. A possible lead(s) and not just for Dr Who.
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Post by Jon Preddle on Dec 19, 2011 18:48:18 GMT
how often did the bbc send off viewing prints in this way? where there's one incidence there will be others. A possible lead(s) and not just for Dr Who. Not just the BBC, but ALL TV makers and distributors sent out audition prints (that's the correct term, not "viewing prints") as a way to hopefully sell their wares. From the 1970s, copies (on low grade tape) were distributed at international exhibits like the annual MIPCOM in Cannes, annual BBC Showcases in Brighton... That's how it was done in the 60s, 70s and 80s. And is still today, although there is no physical film/video being despatched, as it's usually sent digitally by satellite.
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Post by adamjordan on Dec 19, 2011 20:44:06 GMT
So we have a possible lead to an audition print or prints of a Troughton story sent to Germany presumably sometime in the late sixties to garner interest in the series. As posted above, prints of random Hartnell stories were distributed in this way some years earlier. So presumably there were more Troughton episodes sent to other European broadcasters at the same time and these could have been a random selection also, (though probably not Dalek episodes as Terry Nation was trying to promote interest in a series in the States at the time.
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