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Post by Paul Vanezis on Aug 25, 2011 23:49:39 GMT
Hi all,
Yesterday (Thursday) I travelled down to visit a family in Essex who contacted the BBC via the Treasure Hunt website. They bought a house in the country 8 months ago which featured in the grounds a makeshift cinema, complete with projectors and reels of film. One of the films was a Doctor Who and from their description of the first few feet of film, it featured the first title sequence.
Myself and Steve Roberts examined the film which turned out to be 'Conspiracy', the third episode of 'The Romans'. Nevertheless, it proves that despite what we think is a lot of publicity, people of a certain age just don't know what they have and in this case, the enthusiast film collector had been dead for ten years and his wife suffered from Alzheimers.
I'm sure that one or two more episodes will turn up in the hands of private collectors who simply don't know the value of what they have, or will be re-discovered by others who come into new ownership of such material.
Regards,
Paul
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Post by John Wall on Aug 26, 2011 0:09:32 GMT
That's the sort of thing that's been suggested on this forum. Is there any idea as to how this particular print got there ?
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Aug 26, 2011 10:53:23 GMT
That's the sort of thing that's been suggested on this forum. Is there any idea as to how this particular print got there ? No. I suspect due to the good condition of the print and the fact that the BBC leader was intact, that it had been with the same person since he acquired it, probably since the mid 1970's. But he died over 10 years ago and the family that bought the house have no knowledge of the people that lived there before, apart from the fact that they used to put on screenings for the rest of the village. Paul |
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Post by Rob Hutchinson on Aug 26, 2011 16:59:41 GMT
Hi all, Nevertheless, it proves that despite what we think is a lot of publicity, people of a certain age just don't know what they have and in this case, the enthusiast film collector had been dead for ten years and his wife suffered from Alzheimers. I'm sure that one or two more episodes will turn up in the hands of private collectors who simply don't know the value of what they have, or will be re-discovered by others who come into new ownership of such material. I can't help thinking that instead of blanket awareness campaigns are not the most effective way of targetting the type of people you mention Paul. I would suggest trying to place feature articles in publications aimed at the older generation like 'Yours' magazine and also sending out a letter to all film societies asking them to contact their members (and possibly past members) to raise awareness in this demographic. |
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Post by frankymole on Aug 26, 2011 18:28:02 GMT
I can't help thinking that instead of blanket awareness campaigns are not the most effective way of targetting the type of people you mention Paul. I would suggest trying to place feature articles in publications aimed at the older generation like 'Yours' magazine and also sending out a letter to all film societies asking them to contact their members (and possibly past members) to raise awareness in this demographic. Whilst waiting in a hospital waiting room last week, I read Saga magazine which had an article about the daughter of a British film production company owner who had a shedful of the only prints of a large number of films his company produced in the 40s/50s including early appearances from many later-to-be-famous comic actors like Sid James, Spike Milligan etc; these films were thought "lost". She eventually returned these to the BFI for restoration. Clearly Saga magazine's readership is interested in this sort of thing; it's both nostalgic and unusual. |
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Aug 26, 2011 18:39:07 GMT
Clearly Saga magazine's readership is interested in this sort of thing; it's both nostalgic and unusual. Thank you both. I shall get in touch! |
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Post by Anthony Clark on Aug 26, 2011 18:41:39 GMT
What sort of shape was the print in?
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Post by davidstead on Aug 26, 2011 19:12:47 GMT
What sort of shape was the print in?
I should think rectangular, in a circular tin....lol.
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Post by Ronnie McDevitt on Aug 26, 2011 19:50:46 GMT
Encouraging news yes - but it also illustrates the likelihood that the discovery of a black & white episode is more likely to be a copy of one already in existence given the majority of monochromes have been found/kept.
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Post by Ed Brown on Aug 26, 2011 20:48:51 GMT
If you are looking for suggestions, in addition to Saga's magazine it might be worthwhile contacting 'This England' and 'Evergreen' magazines, which cover topics of interest to an older readership. Both must have a wide circulation, as they are sold in WH Smith.
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Post by John Wall on Aug 26, 2011 21:37:33 GMT
A very productive thread  |
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Aug 26, 2011 22:14:19 GMT
What sort of shape was the print in? Hi Anthony, Steve is going to check the print over this weekend, but it looked pretty good to me. I took my film rewinder with me so I was able to go through the film without putting it at risk. I visited an old film collector last week who uses an old 16mm projector lens the wrong way round as a 'microscope' to check for scratches on frames, so I picked one up on EBay cheap earlier this week. Didn't know I'd need it so soon. There weren't any obvious scratches, creases and no splices apart from an original BBC cement splice joining the leader on the front. The leader was intact and although the film had been stored with other films in not ideal conditions, there was no vinegar syndrome, no mould and no chemical staining. Regarding splices; the film recordings were usually made on air during the first broadcast and then printed from the negatives. After quality assessment, the VT time clocks were removed from the prints and new film leaders were spliced on the front. This is one of those prints; it's an original and not a dupe. At some point though, BBC Enterprises changed their method, removing the VT clock from the negative and adding a negative leader so that the prints could be printed as one piece of film with no splices. Additionally, the film recording number would be scratched into the negative and often this identifying recording number would be printed on the existing print. Some prints have been returned from overseas with the VT clock intact, for example 'The Web Planet' episodes which came back from Nigeria in 1984. As we haven't been able to discover where these prints originated from, my guess is these were made purely for the purpose of the Midwest TV screening in Nigeria and sent directly without the clock being replaced on the film print. It would be usual for the TV station to have a 'film make-up' department. They would splice in commercial breaks, the adverts and add a countdown, thus removing the clock. Surprisingly, this was not done for those 'Web Planet' episodes. One of the reasons I'd like to get the print of 'Conspiracy' checked over is that it may well be a suppressed field recording, made during the first broadcast. The copies we used for the DVD came from stored field film recording negatives made in 1967. We discovered when we did the original restoration on 'The War Machines' that the copies returned from Nigeria were in fact made afresh in 1968 for the transmission in New Zealand. These are substantially more zoomed in than the original part two 'off-air' which was returned by David Gee in the late 1970's. So I want to see if this print has more active picture information, although the overall quality will be inferior. Paul |
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Post by frankymole on Aug 26, 2011 22:42:09 GMT
I can't help thinking that instead of blanket awareness campaigns are not the most effective way of targetting the type of people you mention Paul. I would suggest trying to place feature articles in publications aimed at the older generation like 'Yours' magazine and also sending out a letter to all film societies asking them to contact their members (and possibly past members) to raise awareness in this demographic. Whilst waiting in a hospital waiting room last week, I read Saga magazine which had an article about the daughter of a British film production company owner who had a shedful of the only prints of a large number of films his company produced in the 40s/50s including early appearances from many later-to-be-famous comic actors like Sid James, Spike Milligan etc; these films were thought "lost". She eventually returned these to the BFI for restoration. Clearly Saga magazine's readership is interested in this sort of thing; it's both nostalgic and unusual. Here's the BFI data which supports the Saga article (they're now restoring and releasing the films on BC and DVD, as money allows): "Adelphi Films was a small British company run by Arthur Dent and his sons that produced more than thirty films in the 1940s and 1950s from noir-ish crime pictures and buoyant musicals to colourful melodramas and slapstick comedies. Sid James, Diana Dors, Ted Ray, Petula Clark, Ronnie Corbett, Rolf Harris and Prunella Scales are just some of the many well-loved performers who appeared before Adelphi’s cameras early on in their careers. Adelphi is now managed by Arthur Dent’s granddaughter Kate Lees and the company’s original film materials – for a long time stored in a suburban garage in London – are now safely preserved at the BFI National Archive." source: www.britmovie.co.uk/2010/05/29/is-your-honeymoon-really-necessary-my-wifes-lodger/Granted that Arthur Dent sounds like a fictional character (I wonder if Douglas Adams ever heard of him?) but the granddaughter did try to tout the films around for funds for restoration and a benefactor provided money to do one or two, but "all roads led back to the BFI" so she entered into a 30 year contract with them. I'm not sure of the issue fo Saga, could've been a few years old (hospital waiting room!) but the article may give a good idea of the angle they look for. |
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Post by John Wall on Aug 26, 2011 22:59:09 GMT
Dunno about Arthur Dent but Martin J. Wiggins is a real person !
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Post by Gary Critcher on Aug 29, 2011 9:26:58 GMT
I collect motor racing home movies. One of the first things I did years ago was to get a film club newsletter from a friend of mine. At the back it listed their affiliated clubs around the country. I then sent them a letter (pre-internet!) asking if any of their members had any motor racing film they woul dlet me have. It actually turned up some very nice 16mm film of the 1970 British Grand Prix plus another couple of things, so it's always worth sounding out various places, old peoples' magazines would be a good place to start!
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