Robinson Crusoe

[Robert Belford]

Does anyone have any definite information about how the Robinson Crusoe series shown on BBC from the 1960's to 1980's came to be thrown out by the BBC?

I understand that for a while it looked as if they had thrown away the only English language copy but then later it was found abroad on 16mm? Does the picture exist on 35mm film in a foreign language version? The copies that have been released on VHS/DVD look quite poor.

Another extraordinary decision by the Beeb.

[stevearkless]

i ve checked on the amazon.com site, where robinson crusoe, is being sold on dvd -the bbcs copyright ran out to show robinson crusoe , so in 1982 the bbc binned it?!the original show was located in a french tv archive! as it was a french series,it was in french, the bbc had the show dubbed with an american actors voice{unknown},the dvd that has been released has a new american/english voice dub on it - a viewer of the dvd has noticed the series looks great but the lip syncing is a bit out, but at least the show survives! thanks bbc-not!

[Alan Jeffries]

Is there any differance between the BBC disposing of a show that they don't hold copyright to and a station abroard disposing of say Dr Who when their copyright period ran out. Either pass it back or dispose of it. The BBC is an imperfect animal, but don't bash them because they follow the rules of the time!
As someone has said before it's about the context of history that needs understanding.

[Robert Belford]

stevearkless - I'm pretty sure the DVD has the original 1960's English narration by Lee Payant who was an American. The VHS certainly does and it was never meant to be lip-synched.

I just wondered whether the people on this message board had any inside information about the circumstances and which hadn't been published before. This is the first I've heard about the copyright running out. What is your source for that?

alanj - I think the BBC does have responsibility for taking care of the cultural history of this country and at the very least should have checked that this existed elsewhere before disposing of it. Particularly considering how much it means to so many people. But sometimes the Corporation doesn't seem to appreciate its own heritage and legacy (see also TV Centre!).

I'm not clear whether it was the BBC that had the series dubbed into English (there were several dubbed series in the 1960's such as The Singing Ringing Tree). If it was then it would be a fair to assume that other copies might not exist elsewhere.

[stevearkless]

the flashing blade, was another foreign series, dubbed in to english, which was laughed at by a lot of people,as the voice dub, was not in time with the lip movements!, another series i was fond of was white horses this was dumped by the bbc! the series exists abroad-when is it going to be restored and released on dvd? anyone?,

[Alan Jeffries]

Hi Robert,
Yes, the BBC does have a duty of care with shows, buit that was not always the case.
The way I understand things is that back in the day, TV was quite an efemoral (sp?) product. Much like staging a play, it was an experience and then it was gone. The thoughts of the people at the time didn't see the future potential and why should they?
Who would have thought in 1970 that 41 years later we would all mostly have a PC and communicate out thoughts in this way? As I said, it's about the context of history, all the whys and wherefores, policies of the time, and that we (hopefully) learn from that.
I find little point in gnashing my teeth about what has been. I can do nothing about that. I do, however, celebrate what we DO have and hopefully that will increase.

Anyway. Robinson Crusoe. If anything, that should be part of French TV heritage as it was made there? We just got an import. I could be wrong of course. So, why would the BBC bother to check as show that was out of date - if that is the case and taking up valuable shelf space?
Thankfully, the English dubbed version we have, were stored in a French vault and so saved for us to still enjoy. Incidently, looking at my copy, it is the original dub I remember so well.
And so to my last point, returning briefly, to the heritage question.
Crusoe holds fond memories for me and others, but only to those of a certain age. I would hazard a guess that not many people born after 1980 really care. So is it heritage or childhood that gives the show its glow with us?
A matter of perspective I guess. My brother has no recollection of The Flashing Blade, but I always loved that show. It evokes the same feelings as Crusoe to me.
I would love to see the Flashing Blade in it's original form of 4 90min episodes (I think that was it). We still got a cut down version, but hey it was every summer.

Alan

[Paul Vanezis]

Just to clarify, the BBC purchased screening rights to 'Robinson Crusoe' amongst other series and were supplied English language versions by the producer. I saw the films that Tim brought back from Paris, including all the music tapes which were used for the CD release and they were English language versions prepared by the production itself.

The BBC would have offered the films back or had them destroyed as per their contractual arrangement, when their screening rights lapsed.

I believe that 35mm copies of this series have now surfaced in Germany; can anyone confirm this?

Paul

[Peter Stirling]

Jun 14, 2011 22:40:02 GMT Paul Vanezis said:

.

The BBC would have offered the films back or had them destroyed as per their contractual arrangement, when their screening rights lapsed.


Paul

Oh No! hope Bilko is ok ?
as I understand it, it had 50 year rights on the BBC which are now over.
And apparently the BBC had more episodes than the US did as they had little regard for the series. Unless someone else knows different.

[Robert Belford]

Jun 14, 2011 22:40:02 GMT Paul Vanezis said:

The BBC would have offered the films back or had them destroyed as per their contractual arrangement, when their screening rights lapsed.

I understand the production company had gone out of business years before. I wonder who owns the rights and would have been offered the cans of film?

Presumably the National Film Archive doesn't have individual permission to store every film and video it holds, so I wonder why something like this couldn't have been handed to them if the BBC's license for it had expired and the rights holders didn't want it? I heard the films were actually junked?

Good news about a possible 35mm copy.I hope that's true.

Did the films and audio tapes go back to Paris?

Any idea what happened to the BBC's prints of Laurel and Hardy? Presumably it was the same situation with those?

[johnstewart]

I'm pretty sure the Laurel and Hardy were the same ones run in 1990s as they ran c. 1969 9from the condition). My assumption is either the BBC had their own set of prints which they just repurchased rights to show. (Considering L and H had never really been off BBC2 p to that date). Or that the same source that supplied them before supplied them again.

You would note on those prints the build up of hiss between dialogue; whereas from about 1970 the BBC had new versions of the Chaplin films with 'Esssanay'copyright word cards. Plus a new violin score soundtrack that to me saeled the fate of the Chaplin comedies into wistful dramas.

[Stephen Doran]

The theme was very distorted

[Robert Belford]

I think most of the poor condition dated from before 1969. Somewhere I read that one US TV station ran the negatives through the telecine rather than have prints made and it's obvious some are several stages removed from the original negative.

Quite a few copies of Way Out West seem to have the sound out of sync in the last part of the dance outside of the saloon. It's obvious when they go up the steps. The BBC copy was always OK and I see some of the clips on YouTube are too.

The BBC showed a couple of restored Laurel and Hardy films not long ago but they are hardly ever on now. Who would have thought it? I'm glad I taped all of them in the 1980's and 1990's as buying DVDs is probably quite hit and miss.

Jun 15, 2011 20:09:21 GMT johnstewart said:

I'm pretty sure the Laurel and Hardy were the same ones run in 1990s as they ran c. 1969 9from the condition). My assumption is either the BBC had their own set of prints which they just repurchased rights to show. (Considering L and H had never really been off BBC2 p to that date). Or that the same source that supplied them before supplied them again.

You would note on those prints the build up of hiss between dialogue; whereas from about 1970 the BBC had new versions of the Chaplin films with 'Esssanay'copyright word cards. Plus a new violin score soundtrack that to me saeled the fate of the Chaplin comedies into wistful dramas.