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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Sept 16, 2010 14:16:24 GMT
""It makes you wonder. This new find flies in the face of those who are continually stating with "certainty" that nothing more is out there. I'd guess that the LOC scenario is, if not common, then certainly not a one-off by any means.""
There's tons of stuff out there. I mean, this huge find, all the 'Raiders' Discoveries, the OOTU, the school films, that BBC film found in Bath, the LNLU film, the Rolf Harris show, the Hendrix and Hollies clips and even the bits of N1500 recordings I've found on youtube.
I can assure people that there are - and bear in mind this is just my """specialist""" field I'm talking about - that there are plenty of other missing bits of rock and pop TV out there, it's just tracking it down, or persuading people to part with it.
Now, I realize that this is the GENERAL section, not Music TV, my main area, but I make a salient point, I think. If Pop Music TV represents about 1-2% of TV broadcasting in the UK from the 50's to date, and there's hours of stuff been found in the past five years, just think what else there is that's likely out there.
If you think someone may have footage ask. If they haven't, you're no worse off.
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Post by cperry on Sept 16, 2010 14:36:11 GMT
BFI have rung again, the Newsnight feature is still planned for tonight or tomorrow apparently.
c
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Post by henry marott on Sept 16, 2010 20:43:48 GMT
fantastic stuff but being found in the US it's dissapointing there is so little in colour . From what I can see only the onedin line pilot should be in colour, however that will be great to see. No late Night Horror or missing season 3 Out of the Unknowns  |
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Sept 16, 2010 23:06:21 GMT
""It makes you wonder. This new find flies in the face of those who are continually stating with "certainty" that nothing more is out there. I'd guess that the LOC scenario is, if not common, then certainly not a one-off by any means."" There's tons of stuff out there. I mean, this huge find, all the 'Raiders' Discoveries, the OOTU, the school films, that BBC film found in Bath, the LNLU film, the Rolf Harris show, the Hendrix and Hollies clips and even the bits of N1500 recordings I've found on youtube. If you think someone may have footage ask. If they haven't, you're no worse off. Hi Ray, The major problem is understanding what this discovery by the Library of Congress really is. It's a goldmine of drama and a marvel. But the last time anything like this happened was long before the internet era when my discovery of 200 titles in Cyprus in 1989 was reported. These finds are inevitable as libraries catalogue their holdings, but few do. Most dispose of their material and this will be or already has been the fate of most of this kind of programming. In all honesty, finding several editions of TOTP on obsolete video formats in average to poor quality doesn't do justice to the original material or give a fair representation of the programme itself. You could argue a couple of stills and a soundtrack is a better option. You are right though to say that there is no harm in asking and there will still be discoveries this way. Sometimes though it is how you ask that will make the difference. Paul |
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Post by Simon Winters on Sept 17, 2010 9:27:04 GMT
No way. David Hamilton found four complete off-air missing TOTPs.
There is no way you can argue that stills and a soundtrack are better.
Sorry, but that's nonsense.
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Sept 17, 2010 10:18:28 GMT
Totally agree with Simon. These days even if something is found on an obsolete format, it can be transferred to superb quality, worth of broadcast or even release.
And that happened during the 90's even....ok, they had BIG budgets, but take the Beatles Anthology for example. Some clips on that were from poor quality recordings or copies.
I'd rather see an Nth-generation copy of an ACTUAL performance than a still photo. Any day.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2010 10:31:48 GMT
I'm just glad when any clip turns up in any quality! Admittedly I wouldn't expect the official archives to take an interest in it if the recording is as poor as some of the clips i've seen (e.g. the very sub-standard off-air tapes of pop performances that are around out there from the '70s, which, it has to be said, are virtually unwtchable and - as Paul says - do the original no justice at all!). But off-air recordings on (e.g.) Phillips 1500 tapes can look nearly as good as a master, as some of the restored material i've seen at Kal events proves. The results are stunning, in fact.
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Post by John Fleming on Sept 17, 2010 11:22:09 GMT
In all honesty, finding several editions of TOTP on obsolete video formats in average to poor quality doesn't do justice to the original material or give a fair representation of the programme itself. You could argue a couple of stills and a soundtrack is a better option. I think this is an outrageous comment, especially to be made by someone of such high standing. Some people, BBC included, just don't seem to appreciate the value of pop music TV. If a few seconds of Super 8 Who (one of my favourite programmes btw, not slagging Who off in any way) are considered important finds then so is a 1500 of a complete clip of Showaddywaddy for example. I have about half of TOTP 08/09/77, audio only and average quality but this is nothing compared to seeing 30 secs of Legs & Co on the same programme on Youtube. |
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Post by Rob Hutchinson on Sept 17, 2010 11:27:45 GMT
i'm with the people who think (almost) anything is of value, but i think Paul was only referring to stuff that was in effect unbroadcastable (is that a word?).
But let's not get off topic. My question is, is there any chance of anymore recoveries from the LOC. Have they catalogued everything now, including stuff formerly catalogued in an obscure way? Perhaps someone who knows what they are looking for could ask (politely) to have access to their files? Because as Paul says the way you ask is important!
i've noticed if you go through the LOC website you can see listings for stacks of bbc educational stuff held in other collections. perhaps these collections also have the odd drama piece here and there?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2010 11:55:42 GMT
My question is, is there any chance of anymore recoveries from the LOC. Have they catalogued everything now, including stuff formerly catalogued in an obscure way? Perhaps someone who knows what they are looking for could ask (politely) to have access to their files? Because as Paul says the way you ask is important! i've noticed if you go through the LOC website you can see listings for stacks of bbc educational stuff held in other collections. perhaps these collections also have the odd drama piece here and there? It's always worth keeping a dialogue going with LOC (which i'm sure Kaleidoscope / the BFI will do anyway) as there may be more discoveries if their archive is as vast as reported. For me though, I think time and effort would be just as well spent making official (or by bodies such as Kal) approaches to other archives the world over to see if any hold similar caches of UK material. In some cases, we know the material is there (as with UCLA) but it remains untouchable. The thing to do is to try and turn that situation around. This new recovery merely sends to me a message that says "if that was the case with LOC, the same will likely - by law of averages - apply with some other archives". It's a very encouraging signal. |
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Post by Rob Hutchinson on Sept 17, 2010 12:15:58 GMT
agreed, but with archives i think the approaches have to be from the 'right' people. i wonder if there is a problem with random fans/enthusiasts contacting these archives out of the blue and making them actually less likely to help when approached officially. i guess some of the experienced searchers on here would know the answer to that?
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Sept 17, 2010 12:35:24 GMT
If Kaleidoscope are in touch with an archive, and I know that's the case, I leave it to them. Most of my searches are on youtube, or personal contact. Don't get me wrong, I look at online databases, and if I find anything, I let people know, but that's online searching anyone can do that.
In regard to people who MAY have owned a VCR or film, if they have been contacted by Kal or anyone else, the same applies. This hasn't happened yet, to my knowledge.
Pretty much all communications I make mention Kal and my intention is to get any footage preserved and sent to Kal and/or the relevant archive holder. And any footage I find is mentioned here.
That covers me. In terms of other people, I don't know.
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Sept 17, 2010 15:02:51 GMT
No way. David Hamilton found four complete off-air missing TOTPs. There is no way you can argue that stills and a soundtrack are better. Sorry, but that's nonsense. Well the David Hamilton editions weren't in average to poor quality. They were very good quality. Anyone who was at Missing Believed Wiped in Jan would also have seen the 20 minutes or so material from 'Look! Hear!' I brought along which came from a VHS tape. With care it was restored to a point where most people couldn't distinguish it from broadcast quality material. I'm talking about multi-generation material in bad condition or material which is simply unplayable in decent quality, and then what I said is that it doesn't do the original material justice. I didn't say it wasn't worth having. I do wish people would actually read posts rather than write a knee jerk reply. Talking of Phillips 1500 recordings, John Holmes who has the 'Look! Hear!' footage has since given to me the entire regional series 'Spare Time' on that format. It's direct from the original tapes long since wiped and I'm sure in excellent, playable condition. That's a good example of a quality find; some material found recently though has been of such poor quality that it's unlikely to ever be seen, and with good reason. It's one of the reasons why personally I prefer to go after film material where I locate it. Regards, Paul |
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Sept 17, 2010 15:44:29 GMT
Paul - minor point - but the 'Spare Time' regional series, this is the first time we've heard about this. A new discovery then?
Can you tell me more?
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Sept 17, 2010 22:10:36 GMT
Paul - minor point - but the 'Spare Time' regional series, this is the first time we've heard about this. A new discovery then? Can you tell me more? Spare Time was a Midlands Regional Opt Out (like Look! Hear!) which John Holmes was one of the presenters of. There were 5 or 6 editions during the summer of 1980 and the series featured film inserts and studio packages. It was about what people in the region did in their spare time, basically an arts programme. We have a compilation of the series, but no actual editions so it's a great find. I haven't said anything about it before now because the tapes haven't been played yet, so could be blank. But I doubt it; they were made for John and have been in his collection ever since. Cheers, Paul |
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