Do these series exist?

[Deleted]

That's news to me about Ben Kingsley, Peter. I always wondered why the BFI kept those Orlando episodes and now I know! If only they comprised a whole story.

I recall Sexton Blake well myself, particularly the story featuring the Tong. The Thames episodes went into colour, as you say, and ran till 1971. I wonder if they didn't keep them as it was an inherited series (i.e. rights problems)? Mind you, that wouldn't explain the junking of things like Ace Of Wands though, which was Thames originated...

[Peter Stirling]

Hi Lawrence.

They may indeed have the complete Orlando adventure (usually about 6 or 7 episodes) ,all I am saying is dont count on it .
.... as you know the philosphy of the BFI at that time towards TV
was collecting examples rather than keeping the integrity of the programme.

I know one of the existing Orlando episodes is available to view somewhere, but cannot recall where- maybe BFI Stephen St ? but not sure now?
somebody will know.

[Deleted]

Cheers, Peter. I'll look into that one.

[davemachin]

Was David Monroe one of Orlando's sidekicks? I don't remember his screen character but there was a TV Tornado feature on the show with David painted as a bit of a pinup or something. He later was in Tightrope with Spencer Banks from Timeslip.

For Sexton Blake I remember the tong one and the story of the invicta ray (?) His housekeeper was played by Dorothy someone who also presented, I think it was, the schools programme Finding Out. Hoping someone can fill in the gaps in my memory.

Dave

[johnstewart]

Nov 11, 2009 9:41:42 GMT @davemachin said:

I see a lot of you remember the same things as me! Thank you to all for replying to my message. I can confirm that Ollie and Fred did often appear on Lift Off With Ayshea as part of the supporting cast. What I'd give to see some of these now.

Has anyone seen those Orlando episodes that are existing? What stories are they? Another one I can remember from about that time is Sexton Blake with Laurence Payne. I know most of those are gone now but I'm surprised that the later Thames ones aren't around still.

Then there's girl thingy cat Willum and I used to have an annual featuring him and his face is etched in my brain. What are the chances of the episode of The Musical Box that Laurence mentions being shown at an event? I've looked through the database of the B.F.I. a few times but seen no mention of this. So it's a real bonus that it even exists.

Dave

Think it was discussed at some time that 'Pingwings' and 'Musical Box' were the only SMALL TIME items that survived.

Olly Beak and Fred made it as late as 'Get it Together' which I believe all survive.

I think another 'Orlando' turned up bringing the grand total to 3 at the NFA. Unfortunately the copyright on Rediffusion is debateable and the NFAs DVD line seemed mainly geared towards TV items made on film stock.

It's very true that use of this material needs to be looked into even at Public showings as they are neglected in favour ot an umpteenth showing of 'Stone Tape' which the BFI put out on DVD anyway.

[Deleted]

You're forgetting Ivor The Engine, John! I've seen b/w clips from an early Rediffusion episode and Kal lists the first five as existing on t/r, happily. I suppose it's possible that more may exist in Oliver Postgate's collection, as was found to be the case with Pingwings. Has this collection been checked over to see what it exactly contains since Oliver passed away, does anyone know?

There's also Sara & Hoppity (is there just one of these - the one featured as an extra on the Space Patrol DVD set - or are there more?) plus Torchy. These were all screened under the Small Time banner.

Anyone aware of any further Small Time series known to exist?

[davemachin]

I have the Pingwings set, John. All of the episodes too and it came as a real surprise to me as it hasn't been advertised very much. I found it by accident but I'm glad I did.

There was as well The Three Scampis featuring Basil Brush. Does anyone remember it? I guess no episodes are around but I think I can remember seeing a photograph used when the series was the subject of a quiz question on Telly Addicts many years back.

Other Small Time series were Tum and Fireside Story.

Dave

[Deleted]

Tum was a horse, if I remember rightly. A storytelling series with a sargeant major-type with handlebars moustache reading from a book. Stills drawings from the book illustrated the stories for large parts of the episodes, occasionally cutting back to the storyteller.

I remember The Three Scampis. One of the other puppet characters was a hedgehog. I can't recall who the third was. Another Small Time programme was Huff Puff Junction, a puppet series set in a backwater railway station. Shot on video so I assume that won't exist (unless t/rs were made at any point).

[Stephen Doran]

A few Small Time programmes were repeated in 1965 i used to keep a diary with them noted .

[davemachin]

Those repeats were when I got a chance to see a lot of Small Time that came before I was old enough to watch. There is a good website listing of the whole run that is well compiled by Malcolm Bachelor and it mentions these repeats as well.

And Laurence, there are some pictures of Tum and Huff Puff Junction on the website I mentioned. It's related to Sara and Hoppity but goes into Small Time generally. Some very good pictures which really take me back!!

Dave

[Stephen Doran]

Me too Dave. Torchy was repeated in 1963 too i was trying to recall if i watched them around 1961 -63 but cant remember i liked the test card music that was played before Small Time started Tico Tico was one piece

[Deleted]

Seems we all watched those repeats then! I recall The Three Scampis being shown although I wouldn't have been old enough to have seen the original transmissions. Pingwings was still around in 1965 too, after the time when Associated-Rediffusion changed to being just Rediffusion London (which happened in April 1964).

[johnstewart]

Nov 12, 2009 12:00:54 GMT @laurencepiper said:

You're forgetting Ivor The Engine, John! I've seen b/w clips from an early Rediffusion episode and Kal lists the first five as existing on t/r, happily. I suppose it's possible that more may exist in Oliver Postgate's collection, as was found to be the case with Pingwings. Has this collection been checked over to see what it exactly contains since Oliver passed away, does anyone know?

There's also Sara & Hoppity (is there just one of these - the one featured as an extra on the Space Patrol DVD set - or are there more?) plus Torchy. These were all screened under the Small Time banner.

Anyone aware of any further Small Time series known to exist?

I didn't know 'Ivor' was on Rediffusion! Probably as I lump it in with the later episodes on BBC1; (around the time of the 1967 - 69 showings of 'Captain Pugwash').

[johnstewart]

Nov 10, 2009 12:16:48 GMT @davemachin said:

Thanks Charles. Nothing seems to come up for FiveO Clock Club at all. It only seems like two Orlando out of 76 exist as well. At least it's two more than nothing. Can anybody else help with FiveO Clock Club please? Growing up in the London region I can remember these more than a lot of things.

It is a good database you suggest but it only lists what is missing in a lot of cases and not what does. So if a person isn't familiar with the series as a whole, it is difficult to get to grips with.

It seems like I missed a great gig with the Bob Monkhouse screening on 24th October too. Did anyone attend?

Dave

Well I recalled an 'electronic' look or VT performance of Freddie and The Dreamers doing 'An Old House in Amsterdam'; swaying arms trying to get kids in the audience to join in. He had a plain sweater on rather than suit jacket which seemed to be the preferred attire for other 'Small Time' presenters like Wally Whyton. I recalled Wally playing 'Puff the Magic Dragon'; someone seemed to think that was the start song for 'Musical Box'?

Anyway in reference to the former; it would seem most of 'Five O' Clock Club' and Tuesday Rendevous' were actually live. (Someone was talking about this at an earlier date). The depletion of Rediffusions collection following franchise loss in '68 didn't help either.

That Freddie and Dreamers appearance is a lovely memory and an early memory of such a show in 'electronic' look for me. I was upset about the news on it.

Of course these have become sought after Archive not for their original context as such; but due to the Pop artists that appeared such as Carl Wayne and Alexis Korner.

[johnstewart]

Nov 11, 2009 15:29:12 GMT Peter Stirling said:

Hi Lawrence.

They may indeed have the complete Orlando adventure (usually about 6 or 7 episodes) ,all I am saying is dont count on it .
.... as you know the philosphy of the BFI at that time towards TV
was collecting examples rather than keeping the integrity of the programme.

I know one of the existing Orlando episodes is available to view somewhere, but cannot recall where- maybe BFI Stephen St ? but not sure now?
somebody will know.

That's interesting on the viewing copy; thanks for this Peter.

I'm sure it was Laurence that mentioned previously that the BFI held 2 episodes of an ORLANDO six parter? And also thought he heard that the BFI later found a third episode?

Sorry if that's wrong!

I think the BFI cherry picked collections anyway for one or two as a general policy. Would Kingsley have been a big name when the BFI were offered episodes?