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Post by Peter Stirling on Jun 14, 2009 9:32:47 GMT
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Post by lfbarfe on Jun 14, 2009 9:41:46 GMT
What does annoy me about the show is how it's always talked of in the same breath as Till Death Us Do Part, as if both were of the same quality and came from the same place! LTN was really just a one-joke comedy, with the same lines trotted out week after week. The joke wore off pretty quickly. TDUDP was a real social commentary with quality writing. It might not have been of the same quality, but it had a similar intention - to explore bigotry and racism - at least partially. In some ways, it was more radical than TDUDP, in that it showed the male black character to be just as much of a bigot as his neighbour in his own way. Every race has its own racists. |
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Post by Eric Lawton on Jun 14, 2009 11:49:14 GMT
Wasnt there an even more racist series with Spike Milligan called MELTING POT ?
I think there must have been only a couple of episodes screened before it was taken off. From memory, Spike played a character similar to the role he played in CURRY AND CHIPS.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2009 13:39:54 GMT
It might not have been of the same quality, but it had a similar intention - to explore bigotry and racism - at least partially. In some ways, it was more radical than TDUDP, in that it showed the male black character to be just as much of a bigot as his neighbour in his own way. Every race has its own racists. I didn't feel that LTN had any intellectual agenda at all but merely existing as a low-brow sitcom with race as it's given theme (rather than being created from a desire by the writers with any particular intention to explore the issue of race). |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2009 13:43:48 GMT
Wasnt there an even more racist series with Spike Milligan called MELTING POT ? I think there must have been only a couple of episodes screened before it was taken off. From memory, Spike played a character similar to the role he played in CURRY AND CHIPS. There was a pilot made in the mid '80s (by which time, the themes were very old hat) titled The Jewel In The Crown, the name of an Indian Restaurant. This was unscreened though. It's quite a similar idea to Curry & Chips. |
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Post by lfbarfe on Jun 14, 2009 14:08:58 GMT
Wasnt there an even more racist series with Spike Milligan called MELTING POT ? I think there must have been only a couple of episodes screened before it was taken off. From memory, Spike played a character similar to the role he played in CURRY AND CHIPS. Milligan and John Bird. One was transmitted, the rest were shelved. Having seen the lot, it's an over-simplification to call it racist. Are stereotyped characters inherently racist? The untransmitted pilot of Jewel in the Crown, however, made for very uncomfortable viewing. I think I lasted about 10 minutes before asking to have it switched off for the sake of the reputations of all involved. |
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Post by lfbarfe on Jun 14, 2009 14:11:58 GMT
I didn't feel that LTN had any intellectual agenda at all but merely existing as a low-brow sitcom with race as it's given theme (rather than being created from a desire by the writers with any particular intention to explore the issue of race). I'm not entirely sure that Johnny Speight's 'intellectual agenda' was at the forefront of his mind when writing quite a lot of TDUDP. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2009 14:33:07 GMT
Speight's work general could be quite uneven and inconsistent but his other writing shows that he liked making social comment of some kind or incorporating a contemporary resonance though. If you look at the other work of LTN's writers though, they were merely purveyors of (albeit solid) light entertainment.
Given though, the later TDUDP eps are quite "light" though
(particularly those after Dandy Nicholls had left) and my comments are mainly referring to the original b/w eps, which have more of an edge.
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Post by lfbarfe on Jun 14, 2009 14:35:57 GMT
Yes, but we're talking about LTN, not all of their other work. I'm sure I've read interviews with Vince Powell where he's stressed that he and Harry Driver were trying to make their own social comment. And Harry Driver will have had his own perspective on minority representation, being wheelchair-bound.
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Post by Peter Stirling on Jun 14, 2009 14:39:23 GMT
The crafty so and so who started off this thread knew what he was doing LOL  Perhaps the one consolation of British racism is the fact that people call each other names and most of the time that is it, then pop down the pub together for a pint? Would have been interesting the reaction here if in the 1970s in Australia (where the English were the butt of jokes about personal hygene standards) they had got a show called "The Smelly Pommes" . |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2009 14:48:23 GMT
Yes, but we're talking about LTN, not all of their other work. I was making the comaprison with it though, as I said above. Their work doesn't seem to display any theme of social comment flowing through it. That's not a criticism of it but merely an observation. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2009 14:52:15 GMT
The crafty so and so who started off this thread knew what he was doing LOL That's what this forum is here for - to debate archive television (with particular reference to missing material). So you're doing your job well, Peter! ;D |
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Post by Simon Smith on Jun 22, 2009 9:53:17 GMT
I believe that at the time nobody ever thought that the show was about "making fun of darkies" or anything of the sort. It was just simple innocent dress-up fun, with good music. We do have a problem today where people have to scrutinse things from the past, using modern ideals and beliefs. And everyone who ever lived is suddenly labelled "racist", "sexist" or "homophobic".
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Post by Greg H on Jun 22, 2009 15:36:48 GMT
We do have a problem today where people have to scrutinse things from the past, using modern ideals and beliefs. And everyone who ever lived is suddenly labelled "racist", "sexist" or "homophobic". Well, as it has been said before, 'those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it'. Some of the prevailing attitudes from the 60s and 70s were, frankly, racist, sexist and homophobic. Theres nothing wrong with admitting that. Im personaly very glad that biggoted attitudes arent given a spotlight on tv any more. |
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Post by Anthony Harvison on Jul 9, 2009 10:03:43 GMT
We do have a problem today where people have to scrutinse things from the past, using modern ideals and beliefs. And everyone who ever lived is suddenly labelled "racist", "sexist" or "homophobic". Well, as it has been said before, 'those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it'. Some of the prevailing attitudes from the 60s and 70s were, frankly, racist, sexist and homophobic. Theres nothing wrong with admitting that. Im personaly very glad that biggoted attitudes arent given a spotlight on tv any more. But to just outright dismiss any old television, film, or literature just because social attitudes have changed is wrong. When I was a youngster and I bought a Slade LP rather than an Isaac Hayes one it wasn't because I held any deepseated racist attitudes. Likewise, words like "homophobic" didn't even exist then! I didn't care for the Black and White Minstrel Show as a youngster, not because of any "biggoted attitudes", but rather I simply found it to be boring. And I dare say the portrayal of Arabs and Kurds on modern-day television is more than a little offensive. In short, I see no problem in any channel repeating old Black and White Minstrel Show episodes. I wouldn't watch though, not because it's "racist", but rather it's not my cup of tea. That's the same reason I never watched tripe like "Coupling". |
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