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Post by Peter Stirling on Jun 8, 2009 14:06:51 GMT
The 1967 Christmas special was rescued and restored and was on view at the TV museum in Bradford for some time- don't know if it is still there now?
There was a PC version made as far back as 1968 .This was called "Masquerade" , and was basically all the songs and routines without black face, but it didn't work as far as the public were concerned, and perhaps also proved that the B&WM show was more about pantomime and escapism rather than some degenerate racist joke as some today would have us believe.
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Post by Andy Howells on Jun 8, 2009 14:27:47 GMT
There was an excellent documentary on BBCFour about this series a few years back, from what I gather not much actually does survive.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2009 16:09:29 GMT
According to the Kal guide, quite a few survive in colour from '67 onwards. Quite as it should be too as it'd be wrong to start wiping ANYTHING again just because it doesn't fit in with the current view of "acceptable". To many people of a certain age, it was harmless entertainment (including to my parents, although of no interest to me) with no other dimension to it. It should be there for posterity for those that wish to access it, whether for enjoyment or as an example of social history. It'd be far worse to pretend it never happened.
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Post by adriane17 on Jun 8, 2009 18:56:55 GMT
I was born in 1958 so certainly sat through many episodes of this particularly as it was on when Mum was visiting an "Auntie" locally and then came back with chips around 2100 when we would then be allowed to stay up and watch The Avengers which always seemed to be on around that time on a Saturday night on Anglia. I can't remember being that bored by it as a 7 to 10 year old - obviously very much of its time but minstrelry was as much a tradition as female impersonators, clowns, blue comedians, etc. No worse than Its Ain't Half Hot Mum or Mind Your Language in terms of stereotyes really and certainly with more of a background in theatrical history.
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Post by Jeff Leach on Jun 8, 2009 23:42:03 GMT
There was an excellent documentary on BBCFour about this series a few years back, from what I gather not much actually does survive. Suprisingly quite a lot survives, consdering how P.C. the Beeb are(and have been for a while) Kaleidoscope says 77 out of 96 survive though i'm not sure that the figure of 96 shows is correct as the show had an 18 year lifespan and that would mean only 5/6 show per year, but still a fare few still in existance |
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Post by cperry on Jun 9, 2009 6:13:13 GMT
All surviving shows are in the db on Lost Shows. It's the missing shows that are not in the db, I haven't typed them all in.
May I point out Moderators that this thread was started by a guest called 'Adrian Petford', and that is a false post. Adrian Petford is my colleague in Kaleidoscope and he has his own log-in, so this poster is someone else.
Thanks
c
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Jun 9, 2009 8:41:46 GMT
Absolutely ANYTHING that exists should be preserved, however ashamed or embarassed people or society may be about things existing. They are a fabric of our social history.
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Post by adriane17 on Jun 10, 2009 16:06:56 GMT
Absolutely! All entertainment is of its time. I get nothing out of Shakespeare but that doesn't mean I don't accept that he is a giant of literature...
What a lot of people forget about The Black & White Minstrels is that the men and women themselves could sing; they toured and did summer seasons to packed houses. They sold a fair number of LPs as well.
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Post by lfbarfe on Jun 11, 2009 17:41:19 GMT
Ah, more moaning about the evils of political correctness. Most of the famously extreme implementations of PC (Baa baa green sheep, etc) have been proven to be tabloid fabrications/urban myth. Political correctness is, for me, a simple matter of politeness (the dread phrase contains all of the letters of 'politeness' incidentally) and respect. Are the people who moan about PC saying that the world would be a better place if we could all tell darkie jokes unfettered?
As to the B&WMS specifically, while I agree utterly that what survives should be retained, I doubt that anyone would disagree that, by 1978, the show was no longer tenable. Its latter-day producer Ernest Maxin maintains that it was not racist, and I agree with him 100%. The show was produced with the best and most innocent of intentions as a pure and simple piece of family entertainment, but good intentions aren't always enough to guarantee a satisfactory outcome for all.
I wouldn't call that Timeshift documentary excellent. I thought it was pious and judgmental. Yes, we know that the show is unacceptable now. We don't need to be beaten over the head with that detail. I suspect that most of the people criticising the programme in that documentary have never watched a full edition of the show. I've seen several and, apart from the blackface element, they're bright, breezy, shiny, fun shows, produced to a very high standard indeed. Also, Masquerade wasn't the dead end that it was made out to be. There was a full series circa 1969 in which the principal singers and the George Mitchell chorus appeared as themselves. The name of it escapes me temporarily. I'll look through my notes.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2009 18:58:53 GMT
Music Music Music?
For me, PC goes much further than being merely about politeness. It's about forcing people to use a proscribed vocabulary or rote attitude to certain issues or risk effectively being marginalised. It also spreads to so many things in our lives, including (e.g.) airbrushing Gary Glitter out of a TOTP edition. Subtle and - if followed to extremes - as bad as that which it originally set out to eradicate.
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Post by Peter Stirling on Jun 11, 2009 20:27:15 GMT
Ah, more moaning about the evils of political correctness. Most of the famously extreme implementations of PC (Baa baa green sheep, etc) have been proven to be tabloid fabrications/urban myth. Political correctness is, for me, a simple matter of politeness (the dread phrase contains all of the letters of 'politeness' incidentally) and respect. Are the people who moan about PC saying that the world would be a better place if we could all tell darkie jokes unfettered? EH? I dont think anybody on this thread was moaning about PC until you brought it up. I just explained it was not a new idea and the bbc were sensitive to the issue as far back as 1968. I don't see how you can call Masquerade any thing other than a dead end as obviously the bbc gave it a fair crack of the whip but it didn't stick.If anything ,the male singer/dancers without black face looked effete to the many manual workers watching at the time and therefore they could not connect. When someone got their first colour TV, ask them what they wanted to see on it and it was The Black & White Minstrel Show, so by the time of the mid seventies the novelty had worn off and everyone knew it was time to call it a day. As for PC itself, I was shocked on YT watching an old Tomorrow People's episode when someone was called "you old Irish!!!!" I was begiinning to think how far we have progressed in civilisation since then but then I watched our present TV full of foul language and just seems to consist of live people shouting at each other and dead people being chopped up and nutters aping this in real life now. progress? nah I dont think so. . |
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Post by lfbarfe on Jun 11, 2009 23:33:22 GMT
EH? I dont think anybody on this thread was moaning about PC until you brought it up. Jeff Leach above: "Suprisingly quite a lot survives, consdering how P.C. the Beeb are(and have been for a while)". So sensitive that they let it carry on for another 10 years. That said, I can understand the unwillingness to kill a hit show. I said it wasn't quite the dead end that it was made out to be, as a blackface-free series followed. Isn't that a bit of a patronising generalisation? It looked great in colour, too. The axe was not a result of 'the novelty wearing off', though. It was because the newly-appointed head of light entertainment Jimmy Gilbert was embarrassed by the show. Bill Cotton Jr had no such qualms, and had stood by it. I think it is progress that writers are allowed to use realistic language on screen nowadays within certain parameters. I do, however, detect a tendency to use strong language simply because they can, which I deplore. |
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Post by Alan Turrell on Jun 13, 2009 19:57:26 GMT
Talking about the subject of racism in tv shows i wondered what people here thought about the comedy series Love thy neighbour. i have recently watched these on dvd and i thought they were hilarious really funny but i know some people think the opposite now there's a series that would probably never be shown on tv again.
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Post by Eric Lawton on Jun 13, 2009 21:07:14 GMT
Again.....its part of our history. The early/mid 70s was an era when comments like that were heard regularly on TV. Even as a 13 year old, I used to cringe, and think "Somethings not right here". But the series should always be shown and be available, as an example on how "not to do things". A couple of my black friends used to watch it, and liked it, the reason being that the last laugh was always at "Whiteys expense".
Me......Im proud to say that alongside my film posters of "Shaft", "Superfly" and "Across 110th street", I had a poster of Nina Baden Semper too ( It was either from the TV Times or Look-in if I remember rightly ) Whoooo, she was SERIOUSLY beautiful.
Mind you, I also had a picture of Suzi Quatro too !
But, the series, apart from the blatant racism, was entertaining to a degree. Theres still a lot of racism in this world, Black on White and White on Black, but thank goodness todays kids are generally more educated on tolerance to different race, sexual orientation and gender. Still a lot of work to do, and you'll always get the ignorant bigots, but I feel we are getting there slowly. But like Gary Glitters songs have been discussed on a similar thread to this, Love thy neighbour should not be airbrushed out of history, it should be shown to kids as part of "Racial tolerance" lessons, who should see how ignorant folk can be in this world.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2009 8:29:09 GMT
I didn't have any objections to Love Thy Neighbour at the time as Eddie was always shown to look the uncivilised idiot. That's quite clear even if you watch the show again in 2009. The point is completely ignored though, so as to tie in with the currently acceptable viewpoint on such things.
What does annoy me about the show is how it's always talked of in the same breath as Till Death Us Do Part, as if both were of the same quality and came from the same place! LTN was really just a one-joke comedy, with the same lines trotted out week after week. The joke wore off pretty quickly. TDUDP was a real social commentary with quality writing. By the time LTN arrived though, it was just jumping on the bandwagon and a dated topic even then. It's a part of TV history though and as such i'm glad it has been released on DVD and accessible for those that want it. The one i'd be interested to see again now is Curry & Chips.
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