Dad's Army - Anything found in the last week?

[Adrian Gregg]

This may sound weird. But a guy at work heard on the ABC (local radio) that a missing epp of DA had been found and the BBC were "working on it"
The ABC have been flogging to death the "Complete" box set and have a comp so you can win a set..
I entered the comp and told em about my Critically acclaimed short (pre show) film i made for a local production i was just in. Plus all the audio restoration i do.

well bugger me they want to "put me on air"
this will be the 2nd time ive been on the ABC being interviewed about DA (plus "doing" Pike) so i wanna get my facts right..
has anything Surfaced in the last few weeks.. Is it some kind of surprise?

[Koen Br]

Could just as well be a misunderstanding of course... The easiest way to start would probably be to determine in which programme this was said (if it has been said at all, that is). I'd go to some popular Australian internet forum with a lively off topic section for that. Then you could try to contact the programme makers. They could tell you where they got their information from.

Would be very surprised if this was true, although there's always a chance it is!

For the first .

[Rich Cornock]

sounds very UNLIKELY. If the story was true and mentioned on the bbc this forum would be in melt down by now

[Andy Howells]

Would be nice, but I think someones "getting into the realms of fantasy" here...

the last time two episode's were recovered it was headline news and clips were released a good few months before anyone got chance to see the episodes in full.

It could be though they have been recovered in australia and returned to the BBC, in which case Adrian is in a better position to tell us, but a quick perusal ofthe net hasnt turned up any results...

.. but please someone I'd like to be proven wrong!

[Paul Ryan]

Maybe you could contact the station and ask who said it?

[Adrian Gregg]

Not only will I be contacting the station I'll be on it discussing this very topic.
Ive had some emails as they are very keen to put me on air.. (somthing I'm used to as I ran sevral Programs for various Radio Netorks years ago.. and can do a "radio Voice" (see my blog for podcast))

As for asking forums and the such there are none. the ABC don't Know much themselves. But from what Two independent "listeners" told me (I work "Cash In Hand" at a hardware store 3 days a week and I hear the station there ) and my other work colouges who had heard the day befores bdcast swore blind that the BBC had found somthing and the ABC did some kind of special about this (which tied in with Thier "Contest"). It wasn't the two already found. it was a tape (not sure video or audio) but it was in "terribel" condidtion and some boffins were working very hard to make it good again. or somesuch.. they said that it had been found this week. so it's all crap den.. tought so.. It'll make my interview interesting then

[Paul Ryan]

On a related topic, it's about time someone created some sites/boards dedicated to lost Aussie tv and radio. Lets try and get some of those lost episodes of Number 96 and Bellbird. back! The number of times I've read articles saying this-series-or-that is completely lost (case in point, a 2004 Age article that said all of Bellbird was lost, when about a quarter still survives) is really annoying!

Good luck Adrian!

[Adrian Gregg]

He I remember that Article in the AGE!! and one revealing the same kind of data 10 years erilier..

Yeh might just start a board.. (anone got any suggestions of what to use? this one (whatever it is) seems fine) anyone got any links to create one like this one?..

I have a few missing radio shows. but no one wanted them when I offered them back. I might start My own Archive. bugger them.. and have you ever heard the standard of transferring and Restoration the Aussie National Archive does.. yuuuckkkk on a stick.. I Worked in a building that had an Oldies radio station in the same building, and heard 10000's of aussie shows and recent transfers too.. I managed to copy a hellva lot of the cd's and those shows that CAN be worked on (about 2-5% because of their "Shave the top end off the face of the world" Style "Restoration") but im trying to pull some fine examples out.. and of course Ive had the privlige of transfering a pile of 16 inch Aussie TR discs myself.. See 2 whole shows in FLAC and MP3 on my blog and one (louis armstrong concert that Ive cleaned up from the CD's i copied!!)

Gawd sort of wandered away there.. but some kind of Board would be great. I could "share" some of my stash

[Koen Br]

Don't get me started on a nation that doesn't care for it's radio and tv archive, I've been there. Casually reading Belgian and Dutch forums and watching their tv output, I've come across examples such as otherwise lost sitcoms that survive on N1500 of which the official archives apparently only hold deinterlaced copies (!), VT drama from the early eighties that are sourced from what I presume to be Umatic for dvd releases, other programmes from the same period that are released using a VHS source (!!), people on internet forums saying they have off-airs of otherwise lost episodes from what I could describe as the Dutch equivalent to I'm SOrry I'll Read that Again, without anyone suggesting they'd try to send copies to the official archives... I could go on about this, but I'll stop there. ;-) I understand the situation in Australia isn't much better, so by all means start a forum. I doubt whether British archive tv buffs realise how much more lively their scene is compared to what happens abroad!

[Deleted]

Maybe the European archive situation is merely more inconsistent though, depending on genre? For example, it seems that the pop TV archives for countries such as France, Holland, Germany and Belgium (not to mention Scandinavia) are far more complete back to the '60s than the UK ones. Much pop stuff that's out there on DVD and on well-known websites etc. from that time seems to be from those countries' pop programmes (some in colour too). Corresponding material from the UK seems generally wiped and often it's the stuff from European TV that is solely surviving to represent many acts and song performances. The difference is dramatic! Any thoughts?

[Andy Howells]

Well, its a good point Laurence, many of these countries perhaps take their archive footage a lot more for granted than we do in Britain, probably because as you say theirs is more complete. I mean how many Beatles Videos and DVDs have been doing the rounds in shops abroad when we couldnt (and in some cases - still can't) buy them officially in this country. I think the main reason sometimes researchers dont get positive responses from such tv stations for missing episodes is they dont have archivists in place and am sure they have a lot more material than we do (and possibly in some cases - some of OUR material).

[Koen Br]

I'm not an expert on pop music and it's quite hard to get an overview of the situation in other countries with so few people discussing this subject online. That said, I'm not sure there ever was a Belgian equivalent to things like TOTP, probably because Belgian television never had the money for it. :-) The Netherlands got more of it (note also that Dutch speaking Belgian viewers generally considered Dutch television to be more up to date with new trends etc. than their own public broadcaster). As I said yesterday, Dutch television archives are a rather depressing affair, and their music output has been badly affected as well. I'm sure you're aware of their TOTP clone 'Toppop', and all that remains of their seventies output are some compilation tapes with performances from various editions.

German television libraries are brilliant for archive tv buffs. Over the years I've seen lots of 60s VT and great-looking 16mm. Although I've sadly never come across a searchable database for their holdings, it seems they're better than all other countries' archives combined!

I don't know anything about Scandinavia so won't comment on that. Bumped into some 60s light entertainment stuff on VT from Sweden once when channel hopping, and the fact Norway was the only country to keep a colour VT of the 1968 (and 1969?) Eurovision Song Contest might be an indication of just how good they are with music in general. I'm not sure about that though!

It won't be of more than anecdotal interest for an English-language community, but for what it's worth, the situation with drama is as follows. For series and serials (non-strand things) holdings for Dutch-speaking Belgium (don't know much about the French part) are quite good, with almost all major dramas from the sixties onwards in existence (usually VT when appropriate instead of t/r's). Drama output was very limited compared to the vast amount of UK programmes, and the survival of so much Belgian drama is probably at least down to the fact a lot of it was regularly repeated. Children's serials were almost all 16mm and survive as well.

There was more drama from Holland, but the survival rate isn't as good as for Belgium. Lots of missing episodes, even for the most popular series. Surprisingly, there's less children's drama than from Belgium. Survival rate seems to be slightly better than for adult drama.

I wouldn't even dare to think the Germans ever junked a single drama production... I suppose it'a all sitting there, next to their dubbed Paul Temple quads...

[Paul Ryan]

Aug 28, 2008 7:31:38 GMT Adrian Gregg said:

He I remember that Article in the AGE!! and one revealing the same kind of data 10 years erilier..

Yeh might just start a board.. (anone got any suggestions of what to use? this one (whatever it is) seems fine) anyone got any links to create one like this one?..

I have a few missing radio shows. but no one wanted them when I offered them back. I might start My own Archive. bugger them.. and have you ever heard the standard of transferring and Restoration the Aussie National Archive does.. yuuuckkkk on a stick.. I Worked in a building that had an Oldies radio station in the same building, and heard 10000's of aussie shows and recent transfers too.. I managed to copy a hellva lot of the cd's and those shows that CAN be worked on (about 2-5% because of their "Shave the top end off the face of the world" Style "Restoration") but im trying to pull some fine examples out.. and of course Ive had the privlige of transfering a pile of 16 inch Aussie TR discs myself.. See 2 whole shows in FLAC and MP3 on my blog and one (louis armstrong concert that Ive cleaned up from the CD's i copied!!)

Not sure what to recommend myself, as I have zero experience in that sort of thing sadly. I can suggest an industry figure to write to about this sort of thing though! Writer/commentator Andrew Mercado (author of the book Super Aussie Soaps) has worked on a number of aussie tv DVD releases (including Number 96) and I've heard him speak on a bit of this stuff in the past. He actively tried to track down some lost B&W eps on Number 96 when putting the first DVD together (and the word is apparrently "missing" rather than "wiped" in some cases) and might have some idea of where to look.

Here's the link to his management page: www.chicmanagement.com.au/chicftm/view.php?talent_id=91. He's very knowledgeable about Aussie tv, and spoke at length about the complications of getting some old shows on to DVD on Tony Martin's late, lamented "Get This" show on Triple M.

Personally, I'd love to see the early 70's series Phoenix Five (a rare example of homegrown tv scifi) on DVD. Contrary to what I'd previously read, the entire series exists at the National Film and Sound Archive.

[Deleted]

Aug 28, 2008 21:36:53 GMT Koen Br said:

I'm not an expert on pop music and it's quite hard to get an overview of the situation in other countries with so few people discussing this subject online. That said, I'm not sure there ever was a Belgian equivalent to things like TOTP, probably because Belgian television never had the money for it. :-) The Netherlands got more of it (note also that Dutch speaking Belgian viewers generally considered Dutch television to be more up to date with new trends etc. than their own public broadcaster). As I said yesterday, Dutch television archives are a rather depressing affair, and their music output has been badly affected as well. I'm sure you're aware of their TOTP clone 'Toppop', and all that remains of their seventies output are some compilation tapes with performances from various editions.

A very interesting thread! A pattern starts to emerge gradually:
yes, German TV seems to keep a very good archive (at least as far as pop is concerned), with all of Beat Club and Beat Beat Beat being there on VT from day one.

I don't know lots about Belgian TV but they do seem to have a lot of pretty obscure '60s material surviving (usually t/r though) of things like early Pink Floyd, Manfred Mann - Up The Junction, Aphrodite's Child etc. (some of it's out on DVD compilations). There was a Belgian show (Moef a Ga Ga? Something like that - I don't have the DVD that references it to hand so apologies for the dodgy memory!) that clips seem to be sourced from. I can't imagine the UK equivalent shows from then still being in existence for useage though.

Denmark and Sweden seem to have very good pop archives (e.g. The Beatles' 1963 appearance on Drop-In survives on VT and many other VT clips of early Kinks, Small Faces etc etc. survive as well); related to this I remember someone remarking a while ago that Swedish (?) TV was repeating runs of '60s soaps from VT, so it looks as though they have a very good archive (a 1969 Miles Davies colour VT Copenhagen concert has recently been released on DVD as well - presumably that's from Danish TV). There is also Hits-A-Go-Go, which is regularly sourced for DVD releases and seems to exist on VT from the '60s (e.g. David Bowie - Space Oddity, Amen Corner - Hello Susie clips, the latter in colour).

I know less about Dutch TV but there is Hoepla, which seems to survive (a myriad of clips from there turn up, including much early Soft Machine). Other things too like The Beatles' 1964 special. Some Kinks material (e.g. Wonderboy) from TOTP has been found existing in Dutch shows as well so maybe there are some series in existence? (Veronica?)

French TV: again, there does seem to be a lot of stuff existing there, including from Samedie Et Compagnie, Baton Rouge (some in colour) of early Pink Floyd, The Small Faces etc. A T.Rex clip of Ride A White Swan from Pop Match seems to indicate that show exists too. There's also a 1968 colour New Years Eve special (I forget the title) featuring The Who, Fleetwood Mac and others. DVD releases regularly source french shows so there seems to be a large amount of pop there.

All in all though, the pattern seems to be that much more '60s stuff survives in Europe than in the UK, at least as far as pop is concerned. I'm not sure if some of the shows i've mentioned above were purely music orientated or merely magazine programmes that also featured pop. But even if the latter, the retention rate for this genre seems to be much better in Europe than it does for the UK (most of our equivalents have largely been wiped).

[Koen Br]

It's 'Moef GaGa', apparently, and it's Dutch.

You may be aware of the existence of the Beeld & Geluid catalogue, listing not strictly everything but at least the vast majority of existing Dutch public television material. It appears there is one Moef Ga Ga compilation tape (item one on the list) and two complete editions (items 2 and 3). The other records are for programmes using clips from (presumably) items 1-3. It's all here: zoeken.beeldengeluid.nl/ internet/index.aspx?contentid=6&chapterid=1164&filterid=974&searchID=834092&columnorderid=-1&orderby=1&itemsOnPage=10&defsortcol=12&defsortby=2&pvname=personen&pis=expressies;selecties&startrow=1#pageCounter

Not sure how it was decided what should be kept and what shouldn't, but the existence of Toppop compilation tapes (apparently made for archival purposes rather than a tv broadcast akin to things like the Christmas 1967 TOTP) seems to indicate there was some concern re. keeping highlights when archiving everything wasn't considered possible. As such, there may be more logic in these archives than you get with BBC randomness...

Considering Veronica is mainly aiming for the young audience I'd imagine they did quite a lot of pop music. Very little exists from their time as a pirate radio station; I suppose the archive status of their programmes is about the same as for other public broadcasters. (You may be aware of the fact publuc television is made up of a number of different broadcasters, resulting in a single national schedule made up of programmes from these various organisations.) Veronica joined public television in 1974 (officially renamed VOO - Veronica Omroep Organisatie) and left again in the 90s, reinventing themselves as a commercial channel.