C & U history of B (on the list?)

[Peter Roberts]

Jul 5, 2008 7:45:40 GMT Adrian Gregg said:

Ive worked on the audio from the "directors" open reel and have obtained a usable sound from it.. I did this via a DIVX of the tape...

The show you worked on was not from the director's tape. It was episode 1 (as broadcast), which according to the above exists as a t/r (it certainly looked like it was derived from a t/r).

The copy that appeared on the internet had bad sound, and the start was missing. Does anyone know if the t/r has those faults? And is it in safe hands?

[Deleted]

Is the incomplete episode / with bad sound the first (as transmitted) episode on t/r? My understanding was that the incomplete one was the t/r of what I assume is episode two (as transmitted). I'm not sure who has this original though; the first episode on t/r resides with LWT, I believe. Not sure about the other, which i've not seen. I would certainly like to identify it's status once and for all.

[Adrian Gregg]

yep you are right mate, it is from a TR
so my question is.....
if it's a TR why does the audio apper to be taped on a Low Band VTR or at least Quater Inch Audio Tape (and by the sound of the flux moving past the out of lined head I'd say 1⅞ ips)

was this in fact the Sony Tape that came back from the producer?
Did he have a TR copy on the VT Reel (the audio would suggest so)
or has someone synced a poor tape copy with a mute TR ?

It could just be a Phillips Tape Terry jones made at one point in the 70's at LWT but the sound dosen't sound very phillips. It has all the hallmarks of a kid's taping Telly with a mic close to the speaker at the slowest tape speed, then 30 years later getting someone to playback the tape on another Deck with azimuth slighty off with loads of "New" Hiss created by the New Deck plus poor chain of audio.
so whats the Def list of epps and what they reside on and what We have or at least can get!

[Peter Roberts]

Jul 6, 2008 8:35:18 GMT @laurencepiper said:

Is the incomplete episode / with bad sound the first (as transmitted) episode on t/r? My understanding was that the incomplete one was the t/r of what I assume is episode two (as transmitted). I'm not sure who has this original though; the first episode on t/r resides with LWT, I believe. Not sure about the other, which i've not seen. I would certainly like to identify it's status once and for all.

The copies that have appeared on the internet are:

Episode 1 - opening titles and beginning of 1st sketch missing, and sound is very hissy.

Episode 2 - complete, both audio and video are pretty good quality.

The first time I saw Episode 2 on the internet was April 2006, so it was a great surprise to find that the episode 'recently' returned to the BFI was this one. By the sounds of it, they just have the downloaded avi file. I would have sent it to them myself if I knew they didn't have it.

Both appear to have been derived from TRs.

[Peter Roberts]

Jul 6, 2008 8:55:25 GMT Adrian Gregg said:

yep you are right mate, it is from a TR
so my question is.....
was this in fact the Sony Tape that came back from the producer?
Did he have a TR copy on the VT Reel....

I can't see any chance that the audio or video in that file came from the director's tape. Episodes 1A and 1B, which are from the director's tape, have decent sound but poor video (easily visible scan lines that you'll notice at first glance). This is the opposite, with decent video but poor sound.

Of course, it could have come to the internet via some other VT copy of a TR.

[RWels]

Terry Jones only had the filmed inserts.
And there don't seem to be any off air audio recordings of the show.
The BFI found the episode on the internet as well. The source remains hidden, apparently. So we have no choice.

Perhaps we should search some p2p networks for the missing doctor who episodes as well. ;-)

[Deleted]

Jul 6, 2008 8:55:25 GMT Adrian Gregg said:

yep you are right mate, it is from a TR
so my question is.....
if it's a TR why does the audio apper to be taped on a Low Band VTR or at least Quater Inch Audio Tape (and by the sound of the flux moving past the out of lined head I'd say 1⅞ ips)
was this in fact the Sony Tape that came back from the producer?

The t'rs didn't come from the director. As Peter says, if there is visible line structure to the picture then it's from him (as they've been optically converted from his copies).

To sum up what we seem to have then: there are two t/rs in existence of transmitted versions of episodes (one and two?), one is likely incomplete. There are also two VTs from the director (containing early edits with untransmitted material as well as transmitted), which still look like VT (and line structure visible in the transferred versions as they were converted optically). Finally there are the original film inserts from Terry Jones' collection. Well, it's better than a few years ago when nothing other tan the inserts were known to survive. Strange that LWT didn't keep their masters though as it's a rare lapse from this period for them as regards comedy.

[Adrian Gregg]

Oh ok that suprises me too (being found on the net.) Perhaps someone could try to track down who posted the file originaly?
but then again what would be the point.!! if we have the vision from the "Net" recovery and (hopefully) the sound from the directors tape ( you address him by his first name lance, do you know him?) wouldent that make the audio from the "net" version usless?,

*snip- no trading*

and has anyone seen the TR's ? could even they supass the sound and vision in the "directors" copy?

if we can't get hold of the TR's due to cost ect ect. would someone be kind enough to copy the audio from any sourse, thats better than the "net version" and let me know ASAP.

I think the show is bloody fantastic and from a pre python way. it totaly captures the style that Mr palin and Jones would write in the not too distant future.

[RWels]

Ade, I sent you an email a while back, did you read it? No it's not any leaking a/v, sorry.

"Time shift: missing presumed wiped" (it was followed by a reconstruction of At last the 1948 show S2E2) showed the VT and Terry Jones watching it. Useful for an impression of the kind of quality the VT will give us. Acceptable, but not as good as t/r.

Yes, I suppose the VT audio could be used to improve episode 1.

On the other hand I am surprised no-one seems to have tracked down the source. The TR could be transferred again in better quality. And in any case, it's always interesting to know where it comes from.

[Adrian Gregg]

of course I read you email.. I replied a few times!! .. I thought getting the message out here would help in getting the elements of the epp's to do the work with. we all want to see em. and the way some idiots hoard this stuff make me sad. so the only way i and my mates can get to see this stuff is if I actually restore them from fragments found on the net.. sad but true.. I can't afford to go to any microscope or whatever type events. As I'm down under. I professionally work with audio and vision on a archival basis every day. and I'd love to work on this for free yep thats right i love me archive Brit shows that I'd do em all for nix if i had a chance but when i ask nicely. they all seem to be hidden or.. only available to the privileged few. I'm not having a go at anyone here. but my point is a divx file is NO comparison to the orig tape and has anyone tried to track it down?.
or lets have a blow by blow shot list of the existing stuff to see what we have.
but hey, only the privileged "few" will EVER know that !!!
yeah i know kinda sounding pissed off. but I'm still waiting 20 odd years to see that Z cars that was found then. at the time i said it would take 50 years to get to see it if i was still kicking !!!

[RWels]

Well, we can get two episodes and the filmed inserts... it's better than nothing!
Dick Fiddy at the BFi said he would talk to the representatives about getting a dvd release.
I should say there's at least 140-150 minutes of material (1, 1a, 1b, 2, filmed inserts).

[Deleted]

I saw the first "director" episode at the NFT the year before last and the picture quality was actually fairly good (comparable to, roughly, the "My Old Man's A Tory" ep of Steptoe & Son). I wonder if a better copy could still be made if an electronic copy were taken rather than sticking with the optical conversion done by the BFI that has screen lines visible (but that's assuming the original VT is still basically playable - does anyone know?) I would love to see all the surviving material released but i'd say some restoration work is needed first (if the existing transfers are to be used) to fix a few things such as occasional picture glitches and minimise line structure. If the t/r of episode 1 is of the usual t/r standard, it must surely be the best quality material visually to stick with though (with possibly the film inserts re-inserted into this), the extra non-tx material versions being offered as extras to this.

I watched this series originally and it's definitely a key stepping stone on the road to Python. Actually, seeing it again for the first time in nearly 40 years, I felt that the ep I saw in 2006 stood up very well and still seemed funny today. A release could be well received.

[RWels]

So was the 1948 show - and look what a worthless release that got.

[Deleted]

Well, that may well get a proper release eventually, I reckon, although i'm glad it's out in some form rather than not at all.

[RWels]

Hmm... with a compilation already available in most English speaking and European countries, will there be much demand for a second, proper dvd of the 1948 show?