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Post by Jon Preddle on Mar 2, 2007 3:43:40 GMT
As far as I can tell, there were at least 315 eps of Doctor Who to screen in Singapore between April 1965 and June 1974. Both Channels 5 and 8 screened the series.
The Strait Times only printed episode titles up to the end of Season 2. But for all subsequent screenings there were no titles listed. Another Singapore newspaper - I can't recall the name of it - that I accessed at the library in 2003 also didn't list titles, but did name a February 1972 episode as being The Savages - the films for which had only been sent from New Zealand the previous month. You are correct in that Singapore screened latter series out of order, jumping between Hartnell to Troughton and back to Hartnell during the early 1970s. They did also play some Pertwees towards the end of the run, but it is unknown exactly how many and what ones.
Jon
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Post by madman on Mar 2, 2007 11:42:23 GMT
It's a real shame that nothing has been found off the missing list, still extant in Singapore. I wrote to the current TV powers-that-be there last year. Yes! I know – now – that that's not always advisable. Anyway, I got a nice response (I'd written fairly formally in my capacity as a journalist and media graduate!) and a promise that my enquiries would be passed on... but nothing followed. The problem is that the media over there is an entirely different beast these days to what it was when last they were airing what are now lost Who eps. Any archives from that era would be unconnected with the current broadcasting regime, I am thinking. What is needed is a proper approach / investigation by the BBC – using their clout to see who if anyone is sitting on any sort of archive over there. After all, this is a very ordered and stable society we're talking about, and one can't imagine anything seen as any sort of resource being destroyed out of hand. Or am I just being unrealistic about the amount of time that has passed and the priorities of real life?! I am next in Singapore in a few weeks' time and can't help thinking how wonderful it would be to take a bit of time out of my holiday to shine a torch into some dusty storage rooms and fall upon a film canister with somehthing magical written on the label!!
Ah. Dream on. Stu
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Post by Daniel O'Brien on Mar 2, 2007 17:24:44 GMT
I was under the impression that the Singapore TV archives had been checked, though I'm not sure when or with what degree of thoroughness. I agree that Singapore has the reputation of being a very ordered society. However, the 'Doctor Who' episodes would not have been seen as a resource once the rights to show them expired. I'm guessing they were either sent on to the next buyer - where applicable - or returned to the BBC and subsequently junked.
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Post by LanceM on Mar 2, 2007 19:50:11 GMT
I have also asked this question in the past here on the board. The consensus seemed to be that it is possible that some material resides there, however more likely the material was returned or junked as stated. If they were junked then it might be possible private collectors, or possibly a university might of been given some material as it was no longer wanted. I have been wondering about that possibility. It is nice to see these vintage clippings being posted, are really fun to read.
Lance.
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Post by Doug Wulf on Mar 3, 2007 14:07:41 GMT
Hi Brian, Can you explain to me why any of this is of the least bit relevant to looking for missing episodes? I'm having a very hard time understanding how the dates that certain episodes were broadcast 40+ years ago could be of much help. But - we've had this discussion before and I don't think we'll ever agree on it ... :-) Regarding the question of old broadcast details and the search for missing episodes... Every missing episode returned was located near where we might have expected to find it, assuming it survived the junking. For example, ‘The Lion’ print was sent to New Zealand, was broadcast there, survived the junking, and it was still in New Zealand when found. ‘Day of Armageddon’ was never shown outside the UK, survived orders to toss it, and it was recovered in the UK. One way of positively placing a film print in a particular place at a particular time is to find old broadcast listings of it. That means a film print of that episode was there at a given time for sure. For one thing, this is useful to understand the "bicycling" of film prints. Thus, there are records that many prints of episodes in New Zealand were bicycled to Singapore. If we find broadcast listings for those prints in Singapore, this confirms positively that the print was bicycled from New Zealand. We therefore know not to search for it in New Zealand, since it was definitely sent away. It is no more likely to be in New Zealand than in Finland or China or anywhere else in the world at that point. However, there are episodes that were not sent from New Zealand and the fate of these are unknown or they were listed as being junked. However, IF by some miracle any survived in the same way as the scheduled junking of ‘The Lion’, they are almost certainly still in New Zealand. The same goes for every other print that may have survived. Thus, it would be very useful to try to determine the last known whereabouts of missing episode prints (to the best of our abilities). It turns out that when you take the total number of episodes sent to New Zealand (92) and subtract the episodes that were definitely bicycled out of the country, according to bicycling records and potentially confirmed by broadcast records such as these (37), this leaves 55 episodes that are either logged as having been destroyed (as was the recovered episode of 'The Lion') or with an unknown fate. We can name which 55 episodes too. Thus, the search for episodes in New Zealand (with the help of Singapore broadcast details) can be narrowed from 92 episodes that were sent there to 55 episodes which (in theory) could still be there. There would have been 56 episodes on this same list in 1998, but 'The Lion' was found. Broadcast details help us to understand better what MIGHT be out there and WHERE. If you still don't see the value of broadcast details, then I can't help you. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2007 15:34:09 GMT
Thanks to Brian for posting those TV schedules!  (Including those Mauritianian schedules in Franglais! ;D) |
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Post by Jon Preddle on Mar 3, 2007 21:33:25 GMT
Every missing episode returned was located near where we might have expected to find it, assuming it survived the junking. For example, ‘The Lion’ print was sent to New Zealand, was broadcast there, survived the junking, and it was still in New Zealand when found. Actually, The Crusade didn't screen in NZ. Like a number of other Season 2 stories, the episodes were considered unsuitable for the early evening broadcast timeslot. For one thing, this is useful to understand the "bicycling" of film prints. Thus, there are records that many prints of episodes in New Zealand were bicycled to Singapore. If we find broadcast listings for those prints in Singapore, this confirms positively that the print was bicycled from New Zealand. This research has been done - I can definitely confirm that The Savages screened in Singapore only a month after the film prints were sent there from NZ (sent in January 1972, screened in February 1972). It turns out that when you take the total number of episodes sent to New Zealand (92) and subtract the episodes that were definitely bicycled out of the country, according to bicycling records and potentially confirmed by broadcast records such as these (37), this leaves 55 episodes that are either logged as having been destroyed (as was the recovered episode of 'The Lion') or with an unknown fate. We can name which 55 episodes too. Actually NZ received 170 episodes of Doctor Who on 16mm film, between 1965 and 1970. The final fates of 78 of these is unknown. Of those 78, 39 of them are still "missing". It is unknown for certain what happened to them, as the NZ TV records show a 'blank' space in the dispatch column that usually would have the name the country the film was sent to, or the words DESTROYED written against it. The Lion was one such episode that was 'blank' in the dispatch column. Jon Preddle |
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Post by Doug Wulf on Mar 4, 2007 4:50:35 GMT
Jon:
Thank you for the corrections. I have tried to figure out the New Zealand situation from what has been posted online, but, as you see, I did not get the count exactly correct. Could you possibly tell me what the 39 missing titles are?
I think the following 35 episodes might be among them...
Marco Polo
Five Hundred Eyes
The Wall of Lies
Rider from Shang-Tu
Mighty Kublai Khan
Assassin at Peking (The find of the reused film can in Wellington in 1990 suggests that this episode was destroyed, but we don't know for sure)
(first two episodes sent to Iran)
The Crusade
The Knight of Jaffa
The War-Lords
(of course, The Lion was recovered in New Zealand)
The Underwater Menace
Part 1
Part 2
Part 4
The Moonbase
Part 1
Part 3 (Again, reused film can found in Wellington in 1990)
The Macra Terror
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
The Abominable Snowmen
Part 1
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
The Enemy of the World
Part 1
Part 2
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
The Web of Fear
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
The Wheel in Space
Part 1
Part 2
Part 4
Part 5
Then, is it known if the following were returned to the BBC?
The Ice Warriors
Part 2
Part 3
Fury from the Deep
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
And are these the only ones logged as destroyed...?
The Reign of Terror
The Tyrant of France
A Bargain of Necessity
DESTROYED -- 18 JUNE 1971
The Highlanders
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
DESTROYED – After April 1970
The Evil of the Daleks
Part 1
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
DESTROYED – After August 1973
Thanks!
Doug
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Post by Jon Preddle on Mar 4, 2007 7:11:12 GMT
Jon: Thank you for the corrections. I have tried to figure out the New Zealand situation from what has been posted online, but, as you see, I did not get the count exactly correct. Could you possibly tell me what the 39 missing titles are? Hi Doug Your list is correct except for the following: The Macra Terror is marked as being destroyed in June 1974. The fates of The Ice Warriors and Fury from the Deep is unknown. It is possible they were sent to the BBC on the sole basis that the other rejected story, Faceless Ones, was sent to London. As for the ones that are marked "Destroyed", add Macra Terror to your list. The Evil of the Daleks was DESTROYED sometime after MAY 1973, which was the rights expiry date. Jon |
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Post by Doug Wulf on Mar 8, 2007 21:10:39 GMT
Jon: Thanks so much for your kind assistance! Doug Jon: Thank you for the corrections. I have tried to figure out the New Zealand situation from what has been posted online, but, as you see, I did not get the count exactly correct. Could you possibly tell me what the 39 missing titles are? Hi Doug Your list is correct except for the following: The Macra Terror is marked as being destroyed in June 1974. The fates of The Ice Warriors and Fury from the Deep is unknown. It is possible they were sent to the BBC on the sole basis that the other rejected story, Faceless Ones, was sent to London. As for the ones that are marked "Destroyed", add Macra Terror to your list. The Evil of the Daleks was DESTROYED sometime after MAY 1973, which was the rights expiry date. Jon |
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Post by Doug Wulf on Mar 8, 2007 21:14:16 GMT
OK, so the corrected list for New Zealand would be...
The 39 missing episodes believed most likely to still perhaps exist in New Zealand are:
From the story ‘Marco Polo’
(episode 3) Five Hundred Eyes
(episode 4) The Wall of Lies
(episode 5) Rider from Shang-Tu
(episode 6) Mighty Kublai Khan
(episode 7) Assassin at Peking
(The reused film can from Assassin at Peking was found in Wellington in 1990.)
From the story ‘The Crusade’
(episode 2) The Knight of Jaffa
(episode 4) The War-Lords
From the story ‘The Underwater Menace’
Part 1
Part 2
Part 4
From the story ‘The Moonbase’
Part 1
Part 3
(The reused film can from ‘The Moonbase’ Part 3 was found in Wellington in 1990.)
From the story ‘The Abominable Snowmen’
Part 1
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
From the story ‘The Ice Warriors’
Part 2
Part 3
From the story ‘The Enemy of the World’
Part 1
Part 2
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
From the story ‘The Web of Fear’
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
From the story ‘Fury from the Deep’
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
From the story ‘The Wheel in Space’
Part 1
Part 2
Part 4
Part 5
**********************************************************
In addition, the following 16 episodes are listed as having been destroyed in the early 1970s, but there is a least a small chance that the records are in error and the episodes still exist in New Zealand:
From the story ‘The Reign of Terror’
(episode 4) The Tyrant of France,
(episode 5) A Bargain of Necessity
From the story ‘The Highlanders’
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
From the story ‘The Macra Terror’
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
(One eyewitness states that two episodes of ‘The Macra Terror’ were shown at a school in Masterton in the late 1970s, which would indicate that at least two episodes were not destroyed.)
From the story ‘The Evil of the Daleks’
Part 1
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
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Post by Jon Preddle on Mar 8, 2007 23:42:01 GMT
So, in summary - between mid-1964 and December 1970, the NZBC received 170 x 16mm b/w film prints of the Hartnell & Troughton stories (Seasons One through Five; they didn't purchase The Keys of Marinus, The Aztecs, The Sensorites, The Chase, Mission to the Unknown, The Daleks Master Plan and The Gunfighters).
According to surviving NZBC records, of those 170
- 67 were sent overseas (Iran, Denmark, Nigeria, Singapore, London)
- 24 were destroyed (ie run through a band saw and shredded, remains taken to the rubbish tip)
- 79 the fate is not recorded (one of these was The Lion, which was dumped unshredded in c. 1973)
The film cans in all cases would have been recycled and reused.
Of the 67 sent overseas, 36 are currently still missing
Of the 24 destroyed, 16 are currently still missing
Of the 79 fate is not recorded, 39 are currently still missing
91 in total.
From the documentary research I have undertaken, and ex-NZBC employees I have spoken with, in all likelihood the ones with unrecorded fates were destroyed or dumped, or sent overseas (there are quite a number of countries that screened these stories after NZ, so in all likelihood they got our used prints).
Yes, it is remotely possible some may have been dumped whole, and 'rescued' by members of the public (as was the case with The Lion), but honestly, that seems to have been a rare, one-off occasion, in which the contractors hired for the disposal did not actually adhere to the terms of their contract! (something for which we can be very thankful!)
Personally, I do think there might be one or two more 'missing' eps here in NZ, in the possession of a member of the public. If any, I would say the remaining eps of The Crusade are the only likely candidates for recovery.
Jon Preddle
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(Including those Mauritianian schedules in Franglais! ;D)