Vintage Doctor Who on a Shibaden Player Photograph

[LanceM]

I found a rather old photo of a radiophonic workshop engineer watching a old Black and White episode of Doctor Who on a old Shibaden SV-800 player. Have a look:

myweb.tiscali.co.uk/whitefiles5/rwsg/pages/page_42.htm

Could this open up the possibility that the BBC might have some old who episodes on a Shibaden format somewhere in the archives ? Or were they probably junked, when the rest of the junkings took place ? Either way, a testament that vintage who was recorded on Shibaden reels at the BBC. Let me know what you guys think.

Lance.

[LanceM]

Incidentaly the name of the engineer is Dick Mills, later on in another photo on the same site. Is it possible he might have some knowledge of what happened to the vintage who recordings ? Who knows.

Lance.

[Jon Preddle]

lancem said:

Incidentaly the name of the engineer is Dick Mills, later on in another photo on the same site. Is it possible he might have some knowledge of what happened to the vintage who recordings ? Who knows.

Lance.

Lance, Lance, Lance, Lance, Lance....

If you study the photo more closely you'll see the DW logo is the diamond one used during the Pertwee/Baker era...

Jon

[Richard Bignell]

lancem said:

Either way, a testament that vintage who was recorded on Shibaden reels at the BBC. Let me know what you guys think.

It depends what you refer to as "vintage".

According to Barry Letts, Shibadens (and other such recorders) came into use for Doctor Who around the time that Terror of the Autons was in production. Of course, it's been known that Shibaden recordings were made of the episodes for years. Dudley Simpson and David Maloney were seen using one in Whose Doctor Who back in 1977, Dick Mills is seen with one whilst recording sound effects for The Armageddon Factor in a later BBC programme. And of course, Shibaden recordings from The Talons of Weng-Chiang and City of Death have made it onto their respective DVDs. Others from the late 1970s are known to still exist, although whether they're still playable is another matter.

Richard

[LanceM]

Sorry John,

As you can see the photo is a little bit fuzzy near the Shibaden Monitor, and my eyesight is not fantastic. Sorry about that oversight. But it is still interresting. Since I have never seen a photo of Doctor Who being used on a old Shibaden Machine. And Thank you richard for the information. I have yet to see the 1977 Whose Doctor Who Documentary. I was wondering something however. If Shibaden Recorders were used after Terror of The Autons. Then is it possible that some footage from Mind of Evil was recorded on a Shibaden Format ? My apologies in advance if this has been discussed earlier. Any input or new information would be appreciated as always. And thanks again for the help guys.

Lance.

[Richard Bignell]

lancem said:

I was wondering something however. If Shibaden Recorders were used after Terror of The Autons. Then is it possible that some footage from Mind of Evil was recorded on a Shibaden Format ?

In all probability, all episodes were transfered to Shibaden tapes up until the late 70s/early 80s. The images are very lo-band and black and white so if you're thinking about colour footage, then it's a non-starter! ;D

Richard

[LanceM]

Thanks for the info Richard. Then in light of that, might it be possible for some B&W footage to exist somewhere for Mind Of Evil ?

Lance.

[Steven Sigel]

Why would you care if B&W Shibaden footage existed for Mind of Evil? The original film recording negatives exist which are infinitely better quality than anything that might come off of a Shibaden tape...

[russellmcgee]

Forgive my ignorance but wouldn't the color information, the signal, still be recorded on the reel like the sound information on film or was the color information completely discarded like adjusting to gray scale in Adobe Photoshop?

[Bobby Clark (synthpopalooza)]

Another thought I had is this: I've always wondered where the telerecording of "Invasion of the Dinosaurs 1" came from. Is it possible that someone telerecorded the Shibaden tape recording of this episode? It makes sense, in that the recording is monochrome but has colour artifacts. If someone were using a colour film to telerecord a monochrome videotape, that would certainly happen.

What this means is that a monochrome recording of Invasion of the Dinosaurs 1 might exist. Although not in colour, it stll would be of better quality than the telerecording now in the BBC archives.

[Richard Bignell]

synthpopalooza said:

Another thought I had is this: I've always wondered where the telerecording of "Invasion of the Dinosaurs 1" came from.

There's no mystery to this. It's a proper bona-fide telerecording made by BBC Enterprises for overseas sale - one of two, made on 28 June and 10 July 1974.

Both The Time Warrior and Invasion of the Dinosaurs were telerecorded, although these appear to be the last episodes transferred in this way.

makes sense, in that the recording is monochrome but has colour artifacts

What colour artifacts?!

Richard

[Richard Bignell]

russellmcgee said:

Forgive my ignorance but wouldn't the color information, the signal, still be recorded on the reel like the sound information on film or was the color information completely discarded like adjusting to gray scale in Adobe Photoshop?

As far as I'm aware, Shibadens didn't record the colour signal at all - that's if they were even fed with one to begin with!

Richard

[Steven Sigel]

synthpopalooza said:

Another thought I had is this: I've always wondered where the telerecording of "Invasion of the Dinosaurs 1" came from. Is it possible that someone telerecorded the Shibaden tape recording of this episode? It makes sense, in that the recording is monochrome but has colour artifacts. If someone were using a colour film to telerecord a monochrome videotape, that would certainly happen.

What this means is that a monochrome recording of Invasion of the Dinosaurs 1 might exist. Although not in colour, it stll would be of better quality than the telerecording now in the BBC archives.

The T/R of "Invasion of The Dinosaurs" (as Richard Points out) is an officically made T/R from the 2-Inch Quad broadcast master. There are no color artifacts at all -- it's printed onto B&W filmstock so that would be impossible (and yes, I know this for a fact -- I've seen the print). All of the existing copies of "Invasion of the Dinosaurs" as far as I know are sourced from this one print.

Shibaden machines were NOT broadcast quality, so a T/R made from one of those would look dire.

Furthermore, a 16mm T/R from the Quad is infinitely better quality than a Shibaden copy would be to begin with... It's like asking whether a VHS copy would be better. The film prints are broadcast quality - domestic videotape formats are not...

[Roger Stevens]

In case you're interested, I found Invasion of THe Dinosaurs Part 1 when I worked at the BBC back in the 1980's. It was one of a number of episodes collected by a BBC projectionist and kept at his house in Maidenhead. I made sure I bought everything he had and they were returned to the BBC via Ian Levine some time later. There's no point even bothering with 1970's Shibaden recordings - they're of lousy quality and everything from that era exists in a better format - whether VT or telerecording. It is worth considering that there were some Shibs in use in the 1960's certainly in 625, and just possibly in 405 as well. Mind you, the possibility of anything turning up that's playable is as remote as finding Evil of the Daleks Part 7 in colour..................

[Richard Bignell]

rogerstevens said:

In case you're interested, I found Invasion of THe Dinosaurs Part 1 when I worked at the BBC back in the 1980's. It was one of a number of episodes collected by a BBC projectionist and kept at his house in Maidenhead.

How did you manage to find out he had the episodes, Roger? And out of interest, what other ones had he kept?

Richard