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Post by Jack Black on Feb 5, 2006 14:10:37 GMT
Similar threads to this one usually get shot down by the "experts." But as far as I'm concerned it's just a matter of staying alive long enough to see the lost WHO classics. At present, computer animation is hideously expensive, but it won't always be so. The home computer is getting ever more powerful. Soon, perhaps in as little as ten years, the technology will exist to create those lost classics at an affordable price, (under a million £s). Think about it, we already have the audios, and for most eps the telesnaps to use as a visual reference (though some imaginatin will still be necessary of course). It will be painstaking work producing thousands of frames for each episode, but just hard work, no magic ingredient will be needed to get to an authentic standard. Anyone who has seen the new Captain Scarlet will know what I mean. Now, add to that, say another ten years of advancements, and we will be getting somewhere close to the level where the tiny micro expressions that at present distinguish animation from live action will have been just about eradicated. Fellow enthusiasts, don't let anybody tell you any different, this WILL happen.
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Post by James Phillips on Feb 6, 2006 1:06:31 GMT
But even if it does, it will only be somebody's interpretation of the episodes. Even if they were based on someone's recollections of what happened, we're talking 40, 50 or even 60-year old memories of the actor's performances, which are going to be fuzzy at best.
If such a project were viable, you'd never recreate the episodes, just remake them, if you see the distinction.
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Post by David Ward on Feb 6, 2006 2:54:40 GMT
Well, I think that the experts have been fielding the 'animate missing episodes' questions once a week for the last 15 years so you can understand their point of view.
I agree that this will be possible in some form over the coming years, personally, I can't wait to see what the fans come up with.
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Post by Jeff Stone on Feb 6, 2006 7:06:40 GMT
I share your view, Jack. And as for the 'experts' shooting the idea down, you have to ask yourself this question: who gives a toss what they think? They may know what they are talking about, but they have no more right to determine what others think and what others *should* think than you or I do.
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Post by Clive Shaw on Feb 6, 2006 7:13:26 GMT
The first problem is "under a million £s" an ancient episode, re-created will never recover that sort of amount in revenues. There is just not the interest from the general public in seeing old 1960's DW episodes. If the price is in the 10s of thousands of pounds then you are getting closer.
....as has been mentioned before, recreating a complete episode from Telesnaps is just not that simple. How many Telesnaps per missing episode compaired with how many frames ? With the best intention and imagination in the World, you will never be able to re-create the exact action which occurred between the Telesnp guides.
The best plan would be to recreate the episdoes as authentically possible using period props, look-a-like actors and under similar conditions as the originals were produced.
Something like BBC4 did with 'Quatermass' last year, try to re-create the same feel as the missing episodes.
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Post by James Phillips on Feb 6, 2006 14:33:35 GMT
I share your view, Jack. And as for the 'experts' shooting the idea down, you have to ask yourself this question: who gives a toss what they think? So... because someone is an expert on something (or even not), their opinions don't count for anything..?  Christ, Jeff!  |
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Post by ron on Feb 6, 2006 15:33:00 GMT
Until video hopefully turns up, I feel that the audio with telesnaps appearing briefly would represent the episode best, as it doesn't add anything that wasn't there.
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Post by Clive Shaw on Feb 7, 2006 7:04:43 GMT
I share your view, Jack. And as for the 'experts' shooting the idea down, you have to ask yourself this question: who gives a toss what they think? They may know what they are talking about, but they have no more right to determine what others think and what others *should* think than you or I do. Yeh, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story, eh Jeff ? |
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Post by Jeff Stone on Feb 7, 2006 8:23:19 GMT
So... because someone is an expert on something (or even not), their opinions don't count for anything..? Christ, Jeff! [/quote] No I am not Christ, James. Though I believe you share the name of Christ's alleged brother, which is almost a coincidence in this context. You completely missed my point. As I said quite clearly in the original post, experts may know a lot about what they speak, and their opinions are often valid, but just because they're experts doesn't mean they are *always* right about something, especially when it comes to personal or artistic opnions. On this topic, for example, if someone says ' why not animate the missing episodes', and someone else says 'That's wrong', that does not mean they are correct right off the bat just because they have spent years researching the topic. Many great discoveries and ideas were brought about by people who had little or no knowledge of the topic to hand. Those the so-called uberfans sneer at often have a hell of a lot to offer, and their thoughts are dismissed because they are not 'experts'. "Imagination is more important than intellect," as a famous Gernan once said. Knowledge does not automatically confer authority. If it did, I wouldn't get half the crap I do here from certain people who object to my 'bizarre' opinions and my person in general. Believe it or not, I'm not actually an idiot!, nor am I (as has been clumsily alleged here) off my trolley. If someone wants to say 'I think this is a good idea', they should be able to get some healthy debate on the topic without a bunch of know-alls instantly shooting the idea down because it offends their sensibilities. That's all I meant. |
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Post by Clive Shaw on Feb 7, 2006 11:27:59 GMT
I agree with much of what you say, but this issue of 'animated lost episodes' has cropped up many times in the past. The 'experts' have given their own opinion based on knowledge and experience that what is being suggested but they get 'shot down' by the none-believers. Which is why you don't get many 'experts' round these parts anymore.
It is one thing coming out with a blanket statement like 'it will be possible to re-animate lost episodes' but then you need to back it up with how a computer could ever do this based on its only input being a number of fuzzy telesnaps / camera script and an audio.
Whatever computer animation system is used would have to 'guess' what is happening between the 'Telesnaps' and build up the episode from there. Not only would this require a large amount of Artificial Intellegence, it would also require a completely different breed of computer which has not even been conceived yet. This may happen, but it is unlikely in the next 30 years or so.
The cheapest way would be to completely re-film the lost episode using period props / modern actors etc and then let one of the current computer animation systems mask the actors with Hartnells face etc.
If an episode is lost, it is lost. It can never be re-claimed either through recovery from audio tapes / advanced intelligent life forms in space / digging up Redhill Landfill or any of the other hare-brained schemes.
Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, that is what makes for interesting discussion and debate.
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Post by Gary on Feb 7, 2006 19:17:30 GMT
So... because someone is an expert on something (or even not), their opinions don't count for anything..? Christ, Jeff! [/quote] I think he was just redressing the balance a little.So many expert views everywhere but the ordinary voice gets overlooked.Whats so terrible about non experts saying what they think?So little sense of humour here. |
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Post by James Phillips on Feb 8, 2006 1:16:12 GMT
I agree with much of what you say, but this issue of 'animated lost episodes' has cropped up many times in the past. The 'experts' have given their own opinion based on knowledge and experience that what is being suggested but they get 'shot down' by the none-believers. Which is why you don't get many 'experts' round these parts anymore. It is one thing coming out with a blanket statement like 'it will be possible to re-animate lost episodes' but then you need to back it up with how a computer could ever do this based on its only input being a number of fuzzy telesnaps / camera script and an audio. Whatever computer animation system is used would have to 'guess' what is happening between the 'Telesnaps' and build up the episode from there. Not only would this require a large amount of Artificial Intellegence, it would also require a completely different breed of computer which has not even been conceived yet. This may happen, but it is unlikely in the next 30 years or so. The cheapest way would be to completely re-film the lost episode using period props / modern actors etc and then let one of the current computer animation systems mask the actors with Hartnells face etc. If an episode is lost, it is lost. It can never be re-claimed either through recovery from audio tapes / advanced intelligent life forms in space / digging up Redhill Landfill or any of the other hare-brained schemes. Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, that is what makes for interesting discussion and debate. At last! The voice of reason! |
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Post by James Phillips on Feb 8, 2006 1:17:37 GMT
So little sense of humour here. Who, me..? I've got a very well balanced sense of humour thank you. After all, I keep coming back here!  |
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Post by Jeff Stone on Feb 8, 2006 7:56:45 GMT
I think he was just redressing the balance a little.So many expert views everywhere but the ordinary voice gets overlooked.Whats so terrible about non experts saying what they think?So little sense of humour here.
[/quote]
That's right. Put it much better than I did, Gary.
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