Space Pirates Inquiery !

[LanceM]

Hello Again,

I have a small question to post. I was just wondering how many 16mm or 35mm prints of all episodes of the Troughton story " The Space Pirates" ( All Episodes) Were ever struck? And which archives they were held in ? If anyone could help me answer this question, then it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Lance.

[Richard Bignell]

It's not possible to say how many 16mm prints of any episodes were struck as the information simply isn't available anymore. The 16mm telerecording negatives from the episodes would have been stored at BBC Enterprises film vault at Villiers House and then prints struck as and when required.

The only 35mm print for The Space Pirates is the original master recording from Episode 2, kept at the main BBC Archive at Windmill Road. All the other episodes were recorded directly to VT.

Richard

[WilliamM]

this story was definitly TRd as well?

[Richard Bignell]

WilliamM said:

this story was definitly TRd as well?

Given that the story was sold to at least four countries, then it was undoubtedly telerecorded! ;D

Richard

[williamM]

so it probably was

[LanceM]

A couple of months earlier on this site I stated that another copy of "The Space Pirates" episode two had been found in an old guys' attic. Here is the article:

www.btinternet.com/~m.brown1/boffin.htm

Could other individuals have recorded missing stories directly off of their television sets? Just an idea ( That was throughly discussed a while ago, but still an intriguing idea). If anyone else has any more info on this, or thoughts, then leave a response.

Thanks, Lance.

[ethantyler]

lancem said:

Could other individuals have recorded missing stories directly off of their television sets? Just an idea ( That was throughly discussed a while ago, but still an intriguing idea). If anyone else has any more info on this, or thoughts, then leave a response.

Yes, it's entirely possible. However, it's less likely that the recordings still exist today. There are quite a few factors to consider, including:
1. Video recorders weren't as common place prior to 1970 as they are today. In fact, I believe they were quite rare due to the expense.
2. What are the chances that not only did someone record a Doctor Who episode, but a missing Doctor Who episode?
3. What are the chances that they kept the recording? Tape was very expensive, so, more than likely, any such recording would have been erased with another programme.
4. If any such recording had been kept, what are the chances that it still exists today? There are various reasons why the tape might have been destroyed since, most notably due to natural deterioration.
5. Finally, and perhaps most important of all, if any such recordings do exist, what are the chances that they'll be recovered? They might get thrown away or they may decay before they're found.

I think the absence of any sixties Doctor Who episodes being recovered from off-air recordings speaks volumes. So, yes, it's possible, but not likely. Sadly.

[Richard Bignell]

lancem said:

A couple of months earlier on this site I stated that another copy of "The Space Pirates" episode two had been found in an old guys' attic.

Yes, but it was virtually unplayable and work on the one tape they did take away was abandoned as no stable video signal remained. This is also the case with much later video equipment. You only have to look at the quality of the Shibaden material on the likes of The Talons of Weng-Chiang DVD to see how much recordings can deterorate over time.

The very few people I've heard of who had domestic video equipment in the 1960s (which was *very* expensive), hardly ever held onto material due to the high cost of the tape. They simply used the same tape over and over again.

It's not *impossible* that material might exist, but it is very, very unlikely.

Richard

[ethantyler]

My belief is that the only people likely to keep episodes recorded off-air (those who had the equipment, of course) are people who worked on the series, such as the missing episodes of Steptoe and Son that were recorded by the writers (?) and a little like the director of six Marco Polo episodes having telesnaps for his episodes. Don't go writing to people who worked on the programme though as I'm sure most of them are aware of the archive situation and are unlikely to have anything anyway.

[LanceM]

True Ethan,

I did wonder however when I heard the news that a Jonathan-Nathan Turner archive had been acquired by the BFI that it might contain some episodes from the first Doctor Who story he ever worked on, "The Space Pirates" ( Sadly no film was in the collection) . Were any of the countries where the "Space Pirates" was sent receive e-mails from the BBC to see if they still retained any of this sort of material in their archives? Probably, just thought I would ask.Of anyone has any ideas or fresh information please leave a response.

Thanks, Lance.

[ethantyler]

lancem said:

True Ethan,

I did wonder however when I heard the news that a Jonathan-Nathan Turner archive had been acquired by the BFI that it might contain some episodes from the first Doctor Who story he ever worked on, "The Space Pirates" ( Sadly no film was in the collection) .

I sincerely doubt that John Nathan-Turner could have owned anything missing or valuable without knowing about it. Do bare in mind that he was aware of missing episodes (several missing episodes were recovered during his era as producer) and he occasionally featured archive clips in new episodes, such as Earthshock and Resurrection of the Daleks. Even if he didn't know, he'd have found out by "Resurrection" when trying to find a suitable clip of Katarina and Sara.

Were any of the countries where the "Space Pirates" was sent receive e-mails from the BBC to see if they still retained any of this sort of material in their archives? Probably, just thought I would ask.Of anyone has any ideas or fresh information please leave a response.

From what I've read, it seems that all the major archives have been contacted officially multiple times over the past few decades. It's possible that some archives hold missing episodes for whatever reason, but it's also possible - and likely - that they don't. At the end of the day, if any archives do have missing episodes, we might one day see them returned as they catalogue their archives or transfer their films to a digital medium. I don't think letter-writing fans are going to make any positive difference.

[WilliamM]

Then again a million to one chance is still better than none, almost certainly there's nothing, but how many home recordings would it take to equal the number of BBC copies?

[Robbie]

I believe the oldest programme to be recovered from a home recording was from 1973.

[ethantyler]

Robbie said:

I believe the oldest programme to be recovered from a home recording was from 1973.

Do you mean missing programmes or in general?

[Robbie]

Yes,missing programmes.It was a programme called Secrets.Written by Michael Palin&Terry Jones.It was wiped or junked but an off air recording survived.They've cleaned it up the best they can but you can still tell it's a 32 year old home recording.