Unedited Episode 6 of The Invasion? (eBay)

[Ben]

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1477&item=6367741970&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

The auction has now ended, but I was wondering if it might be worth one of you episode hunters making contact with the buyer to perhaps offer a trade for a copy of the episode to see if it is unedited. I know it's very unlikely to be and that the edited material is only short, but it's not as though there's much else happening in regards to the recovery of missing Who material.

[Richard Bignell]

There's is no actual proof that anything was ever edited out of Episode 6. It's just something that someone assumed many years ago and it's been repeated so often that people think that it's fact!

Richard

[B Thomas]

I think this story (regarding the "edited" version of Episode Six) came about from a scene (UNIT rescuing Prof. Watkins from I.E. personnel) that was filmed - or planned and subsequently dropped - but not included in the original broadcast episode. As far as anyone knows the scene never made away from the cutting-room floor...

Correct me if I'm wrong...

[Steven Sigel]

I was wondering about that -- I had a look at a film print of episode 6 and I did't see any splices (either physicial or printed in) -- if footage had been removed after the telerecording was made, then there should be a splice somewhere where it came out. If anyone knows where the purported footage was allegedly removed, I'll take a look at that section of the film in detail and we can put this whole issue to rest.

[Richard Bignell]

Guest-B said:

I think this story (regarding the "edited" version of Episode Six) came about from a scene (UNIT rescuing Prof. Watkins from I.E. personnel) that was filmed - or planned and subsequently dropped - but not included in the original broadcast episode. As far as anyone knows the scene never made away from the cutting-room floor...

Correct me if I'm wrong...

Ah no. That's slightly different. There was indeed a location scene planned in which UNIT recapture Watkins and Gregory gets killed, but time ran out to shoot it and Camfield had to rewrite a rather clumsy demise for the character.

That however isn't the edit that's often referred to. That comes earlier when Watkins is in the office with Vaughn and it was assumed that there might have been a couple of seconds trimmed out of the scene.

Richard

[Richard Bignell]

StevenS said:

I was wondering about that -- I had a look at a film print of episode 6 and I did't see any splices (either physicial or printed in) -- if footage had been removed after the telerecording was made, then there should be a splice somewhere where it came out. If anyone knows where the purported footage was allegedly removed, I'll take a look at that section of the film in detail and we can put this whole issue to rest.

As indicated previously, you wouldn't see any splices as this, in all probability, is not a BBC Enterprises film print but one of the (many) pirated prints made of several episodes in the mid-80's. As it would be a direct copy of the archived print, there wouldn't be any physical splices.

Richard

[Steven Sigel]

Hi Richard --

Note that I said that I could look for printed in splices -- which would be there if the original print had a splice. Easy to see if you are looking for them - they cut across both the picture and the soundtrack area. You'll often here a pop in the sound as it runs by the optical pickup head.

A real original negative splice would be only in the picture area since the soundtrack is recorded separately. (And in any case, I would assume that a telerecording would be done in one go so that there wouldn't be any splices even in the negative).

If the alleged footage was in the original T/R (and not removed before the T/R was made) then there would have to be a splice in the original, and therefore a printed in splice in any copies made from it.

[Richard Bignell]

StevenS said:

Hi Richard --

Note that I said that I could look for printed in splices -- which would be there if the original print had a splice.

Indeed you did!

I'm actually trying to source a copy of the original off-air recording of the episode. Running a side-by-side comparison of the audio and the telerecording should provide proof as to whether anything was actually chopped from Episode 6 post-broadcast.

Richard

[Stephen Neve]

Richard said:

As indicated previously, you wouldn't see any splices as this, in all probability, is not a BBC Enterprises film print but one of the (many) pirated prints made of several episodes in the mid-80's. As it would be a direct copy of the archived print, there wouldn't be any physical splices.

Richard

Now Don't have a go at me Richard but I have a question I want to ask you about this print. How do you know its a pirate 80's copy. I orignally thought this was also a pirated print, but various claims from the seller that its a clean unscratched copy and after viewing the grainy copy on video, this print seems to be superior quality to the BBC print. I would have thought if it was a direct copy from the BBC copy it would be just as grainy and scratched as the the BBC'S copy. On the otherhand the seller could be just trying to dupe people. Would be greatful If you could help with this Richard!. I'm not trying to disprove you, I only have a query I want answer to, thats all.

Regards

[Richard Bignell]

Guest-Stephen said:

How do you know its a pirate 80's copy. I orignally thought this was also a pirated print, but various claims from the seller that its a clean unscratched copy and after viewing the grainy copy on video, this print seems to be superior quality to the BBC print.

The BBC's film print is in fairly good shape. As always, people shouldn't make the mistake of assuming that how things look on videos released ten years ago accurately reflects the state of the source material. True, the seller indicates "no scratches", but then there aren't any major scratches on the BBC print either. In any case, the wording on the auction would seem to imply that jedikiahgirls is saying that the physical film print that he's selling is without scratches, rather than the source material itself.

Indeed, the 8mm downprint of the episode (a copy of which I owned up until a few months ago), known to be made at the same time as the pirated 16mm dupes is also very good, and that's definitely taken from the BBC copy.

Richard

[Steven Sigel]

Hey Richard --

Is the purported missing footage supposed to be in the scene where Watkins brings Vaughn the emotion control box and then tries to shoot him? Or is it somewhere else ? Let me know exactly where it's supposed to be and I'll pull it out and take a look...

[Stephen Neve]

Richard said:

The BBC's film print is in fairly good shape. As always, people shouldn't make the mistake of assuming that how things look on videos released ten years ago accurately reflects the state of the source material. True, the seller indicates "no scratches", but then there aren't any major scratches on the BBC print either. In any case, the wording on the auction would seem to imply that jedikiahgirls is saying that the physical film print that he's selling is without scratches, rather than the source material itself.

Indeed, the 8mm downprint of the episode (a copy of which I owned up until a few months ago), known to be made at the same time as the pirated 16mm dupes is also very good, and that's definitely taken from the BBC copy.

Richard

Thanks for clearing that up Richard.

[Guest]

Could the existence of these pirate copies be the source of that old rumour about the sinister fan syndicate who have a hidden copy of an Invasion episode (1 or 4 naturally) secreted away in Yorkshire? Fan over-enthusiasm would no doubt elaborate the purchase of an illegal print into purchase of a lost episode at the drop of a hat.

[Stephen Neve]

Guest-Guest said:

Could the existence of these pirate copies be the source of that old rumour about the sinister fan syndicate who have a hidden copy of an Invasion episode (1 or 4 naturally) secreted away in Yorkshire? Fan over-enthusiasm would no doubt elaborate the purchase of an illegal print into purchase of a lost episode at the drop of a hat.

I belive it is supposed to be Invasion 1. Visit Ash Stewarts site for more info. Ash actually thinks there maybe something in this rumour.

[Ash Stewart]

Guest-Stephen said:

I belive it is supposed to be Invasion 1. Visit Ash Stewarts site for more info. Ash actually thinks there maybe something in this rumour.

The adress of which is;

www.unlimitedricepudding.com/Mythmakers2004.html

And, whilst I think it exists, I don't think it's anything to do with a syndicate. Here's what I wrote:

The Invasion Episode 1

There have been many rumours of the existence of this episode, and at least one fan has actually seen the Episode (readers will forgive me for not naming the fan, as he has requested anonymity due to abuse from those who doubt his word and accuse him of telling lies):

"It was a very poor copy and the sound was very hissy and poor. I actually saw it on video around this guy's house in the early 80's (about 81/82) but I don't know if it was just a poor copy of the film print or a poor quality video copy."

"I didn't know when I saw it that it was a missing Episode - I'm sure he didn't either - this was before the high profile campaign to get the missing episodes back into the archives. I only knew this guy for a while and the last thing I heard he was in Manchester - although that was about 10 years ago! All I ever knew was his first name and at the time he was about 35, which means he would be about mid-50's now."

"Anyway, it was part one (not part two) - it started with the scene in the TARDIS where they are attacked by the missile from behind the moon."

True, it is just this fan's word that he has seen the Episode, but there is no real reason to doubt his word.

(Note that the infamous Blackpool hoaxer once claimed to have seen a silent copy of The Invasion Episode 1. This fan is NOT that person.)


All the best,

ash