several reasons whysome episodes may be missing

[john baker]

hi, could it be possible that some missing episodes are in the hands of non Dr. who fans? people who have no Idea what they've got. maybe something in a film can labeled wrong? maybe a relative gave or left it to them. also some maybe afraid of letting go of something they think is valuable, because once they do they get nothing financially out of it. some will hold onto this type of material even though there's no viable way to make a profit on it. essentially it all belongs to the BBC and the " If I can't make anything on it, no one can sensibility" I know it's selfish and dishonors Dr. who and the fans, but some are like that. others in possession of this material may simply be afraid that they have it illegally, through no fault of there own and don't want trouble, so they keep it to themselves. I wonder how much Dr. who would surface if a substantial monetary agreement could be worked out. or if a no questions asked policy about returned episodes were posted. just several thoughts, john

[Daniel O'Brien]

I believe that the BBC have followed a no-questions-asked returns policy for some time. I don't think they will ever pay for returned missing material, as it sets a bad precedent.

One question: how many private individuals have ever owned, handled or even seen 16mm film material of any kind? Back in the 1980s, I used to book 16mm rental prints for a film society at my university, but I never owned anything in this format.

I think there are more missing episodes out there, 'Doctor Who' or otherwise. But the idea of hundreds of 16mm film cans lying forgotten in attics or garden sheds or the back of a wardrobe is more fantasy than reality. Of course, I'm happy to be proved wrong.

[lpmoderator]

Regardless of the ethics involved, I am 1000% sure that if money were offered by the BBC for more missing Doctor Who (and missing TV generally) then a fair bit would turn up. How much is anybody's guess...

[Ash Stewart]

Let us not forget that the chappy who returned DMP#2 was unaware it was missing until he found the RT's website. Also remember that he returned it freely, and without the need to offer a wodge of cash.

[lpmoderator]

Yes and (contrary to what many believe) I still think there are other such people out there who are genuinely unaware of the rarity value of what they hold.

[Nick Gilbert]

lpmoderator said:

Regardless of the ethics involved, I am 1000% sure that if money were offered by the BBC for more missing Doctor Who (and missing TV generally) then a fair bit would turn up. How much is anybody's guess...

Nah if you had a missing Dr Who ep you could turn a tidy profit despite what the BBC offer. How much would someone like Ian Levine pay for an ep (on top of a full size Dalek of course)

[lpmoderator]

Only if you knew it had value. I'm saying that (believe it or not) some material may well be out there where the owner isn't aware of - or indifferent to - the rarity. Not everyone moves in DW circles.

[William Martin]

I agree, most people out there don't know that much about Dr Who or missing episodes, it is quite possible for some episodes to be owned by people who have no idea of its worth or rarity

[LanceM]

Hello Again All,

I am also of firm belief that there are bound to be other Missing examples of British television out there in private hands. As was stated previously, I also know that the BBC would never be able to offer any great amounts for Missing material. They have stated that they will not pay for material to be returned, for one they simply do not have many thousand (£) lying about to spend on archival material. The BBC has had in place a very lenient policy for those who opt to loan material to the archives for preservation, they are offered their original format back cleaned and polished, along with a professional cleaned copy for their contribution to the archives.

Instead of the BBC being able to raise funds directly, they could assist in making some greater strides for publicity of the hunt for missing TV material. I know they recently had a Blue Peter appeal, with a new series Dalek as the prize, which was worth about £2,000 I believe. A big bit of help would be if they could reinstate the BBC Treasure hunt as an ongoing process to recover material. Bringing the website back would be a great step in the right direction. Updating old sites such as the lostepisodes.com ( which states some material that has already been recovered is still lost ), Bringing back the Top Of The Pops BBC performance database would also be a great asset to those fans who cannot afford the Kaleidoscope guides, granted those are the best tool by far at researching vintage TV shows, they really are through in their presentation and amount of research that is involved in their making.

Also as a side note, Francis Watson who returned Day of Armageddon in 2004 used to be head of Engineering at Yorkshire TV, and giving the print back to the BBC ( then rival broadcaster ) would not of been a wise decision till he had completed his tenure, at which point he did the sleuthing which led to its recovery by the Doctor Who Restoration Team. It is possible other old ex-BBC staff in the Communications industry in the UK have similar items from their old days in broadcasting, but are unable to return material for the reasons stated above.

If the message was spread to the public a bit more than it has been, we might see greater results in terms of recoveries. To attempt to diffuse those old rumors of Legal action, and so forth. Another idea I was thinking about is if everyone could place a small wanted add in their local paper, or suggest an article on the hunt for lost material, who knows what you might find. Sometimes these chaps have no idea of what they have got in their shed or attic, and are willing to part with it before the wife throws it out ( sure you know what I mean, seems like they always love to throw out old stuff to make room ).

I have been spending a great amount of my time and finances in searching up old leads, film reels, collectors, and so forth. Unless people are willing to take a few chances, and spend a little but of money, I think things might stay as they have been for quite some time. "Be the change you want to see in the world, you can make a difference believe it or not".

Cheers, Lance.

[hartley967]

lancem said:

Hello Again All,


I have been spending a great amount of my time and finances in searching up old leads, film reels, collectors, and so forth. Unless people are willing to take a few chances, and spend a little but of money, I think things might stay as they have been for quite some time. "Be the change you want to see in the world, you can make a difference believe it or not".

Cheers, Lance.

IMHO save your money Lance spend it on something else- its a thankless task.

[Greg H]

Lance is doing the right thing and I admire his tireless enthusiasm for episode hunting. Its as simple as that. If everyone had Lances energy and drive, who knows what would happen.

[Richard Harrison]

Fully agree with gh and lance.
Sitting back and waiting for others to do all the work is not the right attitude.

I'd stump up cash if I saw some missing material.