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Post by barneyhall on Oct 9, 2024 23:31:59 GMT
Hi, looking for a bit of info and an initial search hasn't been fruitful.
Where was the planet of the daleks sold in colour to later be recovered from? And has there ever been a rational reason why ep 3 wasn't with them in a colour format in the same location?
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Post by martinjwills on Oct 10, 2024 14:19:47 GMT
There is a lot of info on the missingepisodes.blogspot.com/p/colour.html website but episodes 1,2,4,5,6 exist in the original VT recordings, Ep 3 was recovered by Chromadot recovery and merged with a hand coloured version. Planet of the Daleks 3 – The episode was coloured via a computer method used by Legend Films in San Diego, but was also the first episode to attempt the chromadot colour recovery on. Both attempts weren’t considered 100% perfect, so the DVD release is a hybrid of both restoration techniques. In a bid to end the process of junking material and capitalise on the growing domestic market, the BBC decide to merge the Film Library, which had existed since 1948, and the engineering department which was responsible for the videotape side of production, and create the Film and Videotape Library. Sue Malden is appointed the Library’s first archive selector, and to get a handle on how television shows may have survived within the BBC she chose Doctor Who as her pet project. With the 47 films from the Film Library already accounted for (see 1977 entry above), Sue turned her attention to surviving videotape masters. There were no 2" quad master tapes from the 1960s were left in existence (that is to say, none with Doctor Who on them; the master tape for The Enemy of the World 3 for example still exists but with another programme recorded over it). The complete list included The Ambassadors of Death 1, The Claws of Axos 1 4, The Daemons 4, Day of the Daleks 1 2 3 4, The Sea Devils 4 5 6, The Mutants 3 4 5 6, The Three Doctors 1 2 3 4, Carnival of Monsters 1 2 3 4, Frontier in Space 4 5, Planet of the Daleks 1 2 4 5 6, The Green Death 1 2 3 4 5 6, The Time Warrior 1 2 3 4, Invasion of the Dinosaurs 2 3 4 5 6, Death to the Daleks 2 3 4, The Monster of Peladon 1 2 3 4 5 6 and Planet of the Spiders 1 2 3 4 5 6. |
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Post by barneyhall on Oct 10, 2024 17:58:14 GMT
Great that's really interesting I always assumed (clearly wrongly) that it had been junked and later recovered from somewhere with ep 3 missing for whatever reason. OK follow up question which may well not have an answer why did ep 3 get junked? As in why that one and not the entire story? Were junkings often done at random? Did it get msitaken for something else? Obviously great it's survived in B and W, and the restoration work done to it is marvellous I'm just curious how we got the stage where it needed restoring.
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Post by martinjwills on Oct 10, 2024 18:04:32 GMT
In 1999 the BBC showed this story in a re-run of Pertwee episodes, and said at the beginning this episode only exists in B&W. They skipped other episodes like Ambassadors because of a lack of decent Colour appart from Episode 1, that is the oldest surviving original VT episode.
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Post by Jon Preddle on Oct 10, 2024 18:05:48 GMT
Hi, looking for a bit of info and an initial search hasn't been fruitful. Where was the planet of the daleks sold in colour to later be recovered from? And has there ever been a rational reason why ep 3 wasn't with them in a colour format in the same location? The BBC always held the original PAL transmission tapes of 1,2,4,5,6. The United Arab Emirates returned a batch of Pertwee and Tom Baker PAL tapes in 1991 - including Planet 4,5,6. But there's no clear evidence they had ever received 1,2,3 in colour. All the other countries that aired Planet did so in black and white. Dubai still had a b/w service operating until the mid 1970s. It's possible they saw the serial in a mix of formats - such as 1-3 in b/w, or 1-2 colour, 3 in b/w, 4-6 in colour. No UAE newspapers with listings for the serial can be found to confirm if and when it aired, and if it did so before or after the switch to colour. |
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Post by barneyhall on Oct 10, 2024 18:20:15 GMT
In 1999 the BBC showed this story in a re-run of Pertwee episodes, and said at the beginning this episode only exists in B&W. They skipped other episodes like Ambassadors because of a lack of decent Colour appart from Episode 1, that is the oldest surviving original VT episode. I didn't know about the 1999 repeat was that during the run the did with spearhead and silureans? It was my first time seeing silurians if it was. I know planet of the daleks was repeated In 1993 as at the tender age of 3 is where my doctor who journey began and with the featurette on missing eps before ep 3 I was already learning about them from then on. My mum would say that repeat season had a lot to answer for lol |
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Post by Jon Preddle on Oct 10, 2024 18:24:28 GMT
OK follow up question which may well not have an answer why did ep 3 get junked? As in why that one and not the entire story? Were junkings often done at random? It was random. Many Pertwee tapes got wiped soon after the b/w film copies had been made. They stopped doing this circa late 1974, as stations in New Zealand, Australia, and Canada began asking for colour episodes. But by then eps like Planet 3, Frontier 1,2,3,6, Dinosaurs 1 had already gone. |
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Post by barneyhall on Oct 10, 2024 18:24:38 GMT
Hi, looking for a bit of info and an initial search hasn't been fruitful. Where was the planet of the daleks sold in colour to later be recovered from? And has there ever been a rational reason why ep 3 wasn't with them in a colour format in the same location? The BBC always held the original PAL transmission tapes of 1,2,4,5,6. The United Arab Emirates returned a batch of Pertwee and Tom Baker PAL tapes in 1991 - including Planet 4,5,6. But there's no clear evidence they had ever received 1,2,3 in colour. All the other countries that aired Planet did so in black and white. Dubai still had a b/w service operating until the mid 1970s. It's possible they saw the serial in a mix of formats - such as 1-3 in b/w, or 1-2 colour, 3 in b/w, 4-6 in colour. No UAE newspapers with listings for the serial can be found to confirm if and when it aired, and if it did so before or after the switch to colour. Great answer jon, the return from UEA might be where I got my original am notion that it had been returned. Is there any info on why ep 3 was the only one junked though? I suppose you could just as easily ask why ep 1 of dinosaurs or half of claws of axos. I jsut would of assumed when wiping the tapes they'd do a whole story or sequentially. Or did they literally just pull down off the shelf whatever they pulled down and that's that? Or do we not know? It probably is less interesting since for all intents and purposes it now exists. And knowing why it was singled out and wiped wont lead to any sort of recovery I'm just purely morbidly interested in how that one got lost on its own. |
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Post by Richard Bignell on Oct 10, 2024 18:25:49 GMT
In 1999 the BBC showed this story in a re-run of Pertwee episodes, and said at the beginning this episode only exists in B&W. They skipped other episodes like Ambassadors because of a lack of decent Colour appart from Episode 1, that is the oldest surviving original VT episode. That was 1993, not 1999. |
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Post by barneyhall on Oct 10, 2024 18:27:05 GMT
OK follow up question which may well not have an answer why did ep 3 get junked? As in why that one and not the entire story? Were junkings often done at random? It was random. Many Pertwee tapes got wiped soon after the b/w film copies had been made. They stopped doing this circa late 1974, as stations in New Zealand, Australia, and Canada began asking for colour episodes. But by then eps like Planet 3, Frontier 1,2,3,6, Dinosaurs 1 had already gone. thanks jon I hadn't seen this reply before my last post. Really appreciate your time to reply |
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Post by Richard Bignell on Oct 10, 2024 18:38:54 GMT
I jsut would of assumed when wiping the tapes they'd do a whole story or sequentially. Programmes weren't recorded on sequential tape numbers, so they weren't ever sitting on the shelf in a nice block of six. They were done on whatever tape was available for use at the time, so the episodes of Planet of the Daleks would have theoretically been spread all over the Engineering storage area. Things would be misfiled (i.e. the transmission tape of The Seeds of Doom #1), would be elsewhere at the time or just accidentally missed when the wipe order came down. |
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Post by martinjwills on Oct 10, 2024 18:38:59 GMT
In 1999 the BBC showed this story in a re-run of Pertwee episodes, and said at the beginning this episode only exists in B&W. They skipped other episodes like Ambassadors because of a lack of decent Colour appart from Episode 1, that is the oldest surviving original VT episode. That was 1993, not 1999. I will check my video tape it may have also been shown in 1999 too. I started recording them in on a more modern VHS in 1999, i think they did Spearhead, Silurians, Daemons, and a few others. |
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Post by Jon Preddle on Oct 10, 2024 18:39:40 GMT
I jsut would of assumed when wiping the tapes they'd do a whole story or sequentially. Or did they literally just pull down off the shelf whatever they pulled down and that's that? The latter. Each VT had a reference number. These numbers were assigned during recording, so they weren't sequential in terms of parts 1-6 of a serial, but in terms of all the other programmes being made that week. So, the tapes of a 6-part DW serial made over a 6-week period, would not be filed together, but all on different shelves in the library. When it came to selecting tapes for wiping, it was sometimes simpler to remove a batch from the same shelf to clear enough space for a new batch of tapes. |
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Post by Richard Bignell on Oct 10, 2024 19:26:12 GMT
I jsut would of assumed when wiping the tapes they'd do a whole story or sequentially. Or did they literally just pull down off the shelf whatever they pulled down and that's that? The latter. Each VT had a reference number. These numbers were assigned during recording, so they weren't sequential in terms of parts 1-6 of a serial, but in terms of all the other programmes being made that week. So, the tapes of a 6-part DW serial made over a 6-week period, would not be filed together, but all on different shelves in the library. When it came to selecting tapes for wiping, it was sometimes simpler to remove a batch from the same shelf to clear enough space for a new batch of tapes. No, it was only repeated the once on the BBC. The 1999 repeats were Spearhead, Silurians and Genesis. |
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Post by sonnybh on Oct 10, 2024 21:01:28 GMT
There is a lot of info on the missingepisodes.blogspot.com/p/colour.html website but episodes 1,2,4,5,6 exist in the original VT recordings, Ep 3 was recovered by Chromadot recovery and merged with a hand coloured version. Planet of the Daleks 3 – The episode was coloured via a computer method used by Legend Films in San Diego, but was also the first episode to attempt the chromadot colour recovery on. Both attempts weren’t considered 100% perfect, so the DVD release is a hybrid of both restoration techniques. I was very impressed by the hybrid of the 2 restorations, it was almost impossible to tell it wasn't the original tape of the episode. |
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