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Post by Angel Amezquita (Angelgreat) on Apr 19, 2023 18:43:30 GMT
We know Australia (ABC) and New Zealand (NZBC) returned and junked their prints, but they also censored their prints for airing. They censored Hartnell, Troughton, and Pertwee episodes and we have evidence and some of the prints to show. We know that ABC kept censor clips ranging from the First Doctor serial The War Machines to the Third Doctor Terror of the Autons. We also have the NZBC censor clips for episode 5 of Fury from the Deep. In addition, some of the episodes returned to the BBC had been censored in Australia and New Zealand, so could more be out there?
Although there are records that showed (and some of the former Australian prints have edits that proved) the ABC censored early Hartnell serials, the excised portions from An Unearthly Child to The Gunfighters disappeared some time before the other censor clips were found. It's commonly assumed that they were junked or destroyed, but it's also possible that it's out there, in someone's private collection.
When the New Zealand censor clips for episode 5 of Fury from the Deep were found in 2002, they also found records of censoring Hartnell and Troughton episodes. We know some of the Nigerian prints (and Episode 1 of The Crusade) returned to the BBC were censored in New Zealand, the censor clips for those episodes are still missing. Just like the Australian censor clips, It's possible that the NZ C censor clips were junked or destroyed, but it's also possible that it's also in someone's private collection.
To date, only one recovered episode of Doctor Who has been reunited with its exact censor clips: The Underwater Menace episode 2. The Episode had been censored in Australia in 1967, the censored print returned to the BBC in 1975, kept by a BBC employee who (instead of junking the episode) took it home where it remained until 2011, when it was returned to the BBC. The censor clips for the episode were found in 1998, and after the print the clips were cut from was returned in 2011, the clips were digitally reintegrated into the episode, making the episode complete.
If we can find the missing Australian and New Zealand censor clips, this can help fill in the cuts and gaps in the surviving episodes and allow us to view the episodes in their original glory since they were censored in the 60s and 70s. Plus, we may find more footage for missing episodes.
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Post by Leighton Haberfield on May 1, 2023 12:42:10 GMT
So were the prints of Web found in Jos uncensored then?
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Post by Richard Bignell on May 1, 2023 12:47:44 GMT
In addition, some of the episodes returned to the BBC had been censored in Australia and New Zealand, so could more be out there? No. The remaining censored clips have been destroyed. |
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Post by Richard Bignell on May 1, 2023 12:48:45 GMT
So were the prints of Web found in Jos uncensored then? Correct. Part of a different bicycling route for the prints. |
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Post by Angel Amezquita (Angelgreat) on May 1, 2023 14:35:34 GMT
In addition, some of the episodes returned to the BBC had been censored in Australia and New Zealand, so could more be out there? No. The remaining censored clips have been destroyed. Wait, what? Is there evidence that supports their destruction? |
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Post by scotttelfer on May 1, 2023 15:32:13 GMT
The Crusade was not censored in New Zealand, the episodes were rejected for broadcast so cuts were unnecessary.
Everything would have been ordered to be destroyed, that was just the standard practice. It's entirely possible someone nabbed them while they were being disposed of but we would have no way of knowing either way, but this is so niche it is very unlikely to have been a priority for someone to have been looking for but that is getting way into speculation territory.
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Post by Richard Bignell on May 2, 2023 10:05:10 GMT
No. The remaining censored clips have been destroyed. Wait, what? Is there evidence that supports their destruction? Apologies, my answer to you wasn't entirely clear. It's the missing censor clips from Australia that are confirmed as destroyed. Any further ones that were done in New Zealand are unconfirmed. |
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Post by Natalie Sinead on May 6, 2023 6:16:07 GMT
Danien says that the early and mid-Hartnell clips were destroyed before he got there. If he and Ellen hadn't got there when they did, the remaining ones would have been destroyed in time, too.
(As a member of the DWCV at the time, i refuse to forgive Damien over his treatment of the DWCV's Rod Scott who was a decent guy and didn't know what Damien and Ellen had been doing)
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Post by Angel Amezquita (Angelgreat) on May 6, 2023 18:16:36 GMT
Danien says that the early and mid-Hartnell clips were destroyed before he got there. If he and Ellen hadn't got there when they did, the remaining ones would have been destroyed in time, too. (As a member of the DWCV at the time, i refuse to forgive Damien over his treatment of the DWCV's Rod Scott who was a decent guy and didn't know what Damien and Ellen had been doing) Doctor Who Club of Victoria? |
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Post by Natalie Sinead on May 7, 2023 7:37:59 GMT
Danien says that the early and mid-Hartnell clips were destroyed before he got there. If he and Ellen hadn't got there when they did, the remaining ones would have been destroyed in time, too. (As a member of the DWCV at the time, i refuse to forgive Damien over his treatment of the DWCV's Rod Scott who was a decent guy and didn't know what Damien and Ellen had been doing) Doctor Who Club of Victoria? i joined the DWCV in late 1993 just before the big 30th anniversary of Who meeting at St. Lukes Church. They showed DiT and some of the Molyneux tapes of DW clips set to pop and soul and rock and roll classics. |
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Post by Frank Shailes on May 7, 2023 19:39:56 GMT
Doctor Who Club of Victoria? i joined the DWCV in late 1993 just before the big 30th anniversary of Who meeting at St. Lukes Church. They showed DiT and some of the Molyneux tapes of DW clips set to pop and soul and rock and roll classics. Are those the "Doctor Who Years" decades ones shown at DWAS conventions, with the chart hits of the months each story was broadcast (and a few extra "current events" bits like Delgado's death, in the style of the Rock and Roll Years clips/music documentaries?). They seem incredibly hard to find these days in anything but early edit versions. |
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Post by Graham Howard on May 27, 2023 14:44:30 GMT
>>> We also have the NZBC censor clips for episode 5 of Fury from the Deep <<<
No, this is wrong. The only censor clips discovered in New Zealand in 2002 were from The Ark, The Web of Fear, and The Wheel in Space. The Fury from the Deep footage all came from Australia.
Happily, the episodes from which the Web of Fear censor footage originated are no longer missing. And of course The Ark also survives. Censor clips from episodes 5-6 of The Wheel in Space episode were also found. Episode 5 is missing but episode 6 exists.
I found this footage in a private collection, which included censored footage from many other television shows. My understanding of how the collector came to have these films makes it unlikely but not impossible that other censored footage could still exist here.
Graham
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Post by andyparting on May 27, 2023 16:38:30 GMT
Should any further prints of The War Machines be found, would these be censored also? Have the censor clips from the episodes been junked?
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Post by Angel Amezquita (Angelgreat) on May 28, 2023 23:20:17 GMT
Should any further prints of The War Machines be found, would these be censored also? Have the censor clips from the episodes been junked? We know the censor clips from The War Machines came from Australia. Australia junked their prints in 1975, but episode 2 was recovered by a fan and returned to the BBC in late 1978. If the Australian prints for Episodes 3 and 4 do show up, it will allow us to restore the episodes to their original glory. So far, the only censor clips to perfectly match the cuts to surviving prints are The Dominators episodes 4&5, and episode 2 of The Underwater Menace. The surviving prints were from Australia, and so perfectly match the Australian censor clips, allowing the clips to be digitally restored onto the prints, completing the episodes. Alternatively, if the New Zealand censor clips for The War Machines do show up, it will also allow us to restore the episodes to their original glory. The New Zealand prints were sent to Nigeria in 1973 where they were found by Ian Levine in 1985. It's such a shame that Nigeria didn't get the New Zealand censor clips, that would have helped complete the episodes. Maybe, they'll show up in someone's private collection. |
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Post by Natalie Sinead on May 31, 2023 10:40:41 GMT
"It's such a shame that Nigeria didn't get the New Zealand censor clips."
Why would they even ASK or the censor clips?!
That's not how things work...
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