R4Extra cuts

[Mark McKay]

Are we still interested in R4Extra cuts - I see the previous thread has been closed?

If so, I noticed two in the recent Betty Witherspoon Show run, compared with the 2003 repeats - 1.6.1974 had a bit with Chinese & Japanese accents cut & 15.6.1974 had a Jimmy Savile reference cut.

The previously missing episode is scheduled for this weekend - won't know if anything's cut from that...

[John Wall]

There’s a thread on censorship in the Nexus.

[Ed Brown]

Mar 2, 2023 5:20:37 GMT Mark McKay said:

Are we still interested in R4Extra cuts - I see the previous thread has been closed?

If so, I noticed two in the recent Betty Witherspoon Show run, compared with the 2003 repeats - 1.6.1974 had a bit with Chinese & Japanese accents cut & 15.6.1974 had a Jimmy Savile reference cut.

Thank you for posting these details, I'll see that they're passed on to those who are trying to preserve our radio heritage.


There is also a revised list of affected broadcasts (latest revision: 2023/02/23), which currently lists 70 items:

oldradiocomedy.wordpress.com/2022/07/27/radio-4-extra-censored-and-banned-programmes-update/


The Betty Witherspoon shows you mentioned are not on the latest list. Can you possibly upload the two repeats of 2003 to a free account at Archive.org please, so that there is a complete version available to compare the latest repeats against ?

The current 'database' of files available for comparison doesn't seem to go back any further than the repeats of 2010.


Betty Witherspoon Show

A parody of the old Simon Dee TV show.

9 editions were rediscovered in the Archive treasure hunt in 2001.

Originally recorded in the BBC's Paris Studio in Lower Regent Street.

This radio show is a legitimate subject of enquiry on this forum. Episode 2, aired on 27th April 1974, is a missing episode. There were originally ten editions transmitted in 1974, but only nine of them were recovered in the Archive Treasure Hunt.

BBC 7 only broadcast nine episodes, and this remains the case: the repeats in 2019 also comprised only nine editions.

[Ed Brown]

Betty Witherspoon Show

I investigated further, and can definitely confirm that so far as the Betty Witherspoon edition of 15th June 1974 is concerned, because the group investigating cuts only have access to recordings from BBC 7 going back to 2008, the earliest repeat of that edition which they can access is the repeat of 16th September 2012, which was found to be identical to the latest repeat.

If you want the group to act on your report, and compare those repeats against an earlier repeat (e.g. from 2004), you would have to supply a recording of the 2004 repeat.

If you can upload it to a web service, such as a free account at the Internet Archive, please post a link to that recording on this thread. Thank you.

[Ed Brown]

General Request for Help the Burkiss Way

The problem in accessing early repeats of The Betty Witherspoon Show is only a small part of the problem.

A bigger problem is the difficulty of finding current repeats of any show at 320 kbps. There seem to be plenty of available recordings for recent years, but only at 128 kbps.

I've been asked to try to locate The Burkiss Way in 320 kbps quality, as part of a project to preserve that particular show. Can anyone provide recordings, for any episodes in the show's run, at 320 kbps?

The specific reason for seeking out this particular show is that many editions in the 2022-23 repeats now have cuts. I do not have earlier repeats of this show myself, although someone obviously thought I might have.

[anthonybartley]

"45 Write extremely long titles with lots and lots of words in, like this, so that the Radio Times will have to allot more space than the measly half a centimetre of billing space we usually get and at least it'll look a bit more prominent on the page, although still nowhere near the 50 column inches they give to The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy the Burkiss Way also known as "Write Extremely Long Titles the Burkiss Way" 1 November 1980"

Genius!

[Ed Brown]

Our approach to The Burkiss Way is this -

1. We start from the assumption that the recordings in this source are uncut:

archive.org/details/TheBurkissWay

This source gives us on-screen confirmation of the duration of each recording, which we accept as uncut unless proved otherwise (e.g. by one of the other sources).

This source is dated July 2017, which pre-dates the latest cuts. This is important, because many online sources lack information as to the date the files were posted online, or just lack any dateable information at all.

2. We compare any available 320 kbps recordings with source #1, to see whether the durations match.

3. We store the best available uncut recording online, so that everyone in the Burkiss preservation group can easily consult the files. These are stored at:

archive.org/details/the-burkiss-way

What I am enquiring for is whether any member of the Missing Episodes forum has any offline recordings of Burkiss at 320 kbps, from the uncut repeats in 2017-2020, which they'd be willing to share by posting them on a free account at Archive.org ?






Additional: Incidentally, Stephen, I'd welcome a url link for the 'Mouse' site (Annonamouse?), so I can check it out.

Apparantly, the two pilot shows (from Radio 3) are rated as missing episodes, as BBC Archives don't have them, hence they are never included in the Burkiss repeats. There are some poor off-airs about. Anyone know of decent quality surviving recordings?

Likewise, in respect of the missing episode from Series 1 of Burkiss, where in fact I've only ever come across half an episode, even as a poor quality off air. Any complete recording would be glad news, even if dodgy in quality, since at present there seems to be no known surviving recording!

This of course is The Burkiss Way series 1 episode 6 (commonly known as Win Awards the Burkiss Way). Only 17 minutes of it is known to survive (so far as I'm aware). Another victim on the list of the missing!

[John Wall]

I’ve got some off air Burkiss Ways on compact cassette recorded in the early 1980s. I have no way of digitising them. The only one I recall an issue with is a spoof of the Masque of the Red Death which has a jump where something seems to be missing, but that’s how it was broadcast.

In retrospect there are quite a few that would be, er, difficult nowadays, things like Irish jokes! And who was the dirty old man?

[darrenlee]

This project is complicated by long term cuts and 'bans' which apply back to 2017 and way beyond:

Episode 6 - Never broadcast on 7/4 Extra (but this episode was issued on CD with the rest of series 1). There is a mystery as to whether a parody of a Harold MacMillan speech belongs to the episode.

Reason for 'ban': They can't be bothered to create a suitable time slot for this episode which is much shorter than all the rest.

Episode 28 - A sketch from the original broadcast which suggested that Reginald Bosanquet didn't mind the occasional tipple* was cut for all subsequent repeats.

Reason for cut: Team Bosanquet complained.

Episode 41 - Never broadcast on 7/4 Extra

Reason for 'ban': As the words 'Burkiss Way' and 'Easter Special' suggest, this was a Christmas Special, and as such does not fit in with series runs if, like the BBC, you can't particularly be bothered.

Episode 47 - All of many sections lampooning the BBC's grovelling approach to royalty in the original broadcast were cut for all subsequent repeats. The episode continued to be broadcast in its cut form despite being regularly played in full in 'Celebrate the Burkiss Way'.

Reason for cut: The BBC's grovelling approach to royalty - followed by not being sufficiently interested in the programme to bother re-instating it.

Episode 8 - Not repeated since 2013.

Reason for 'ban': As for episode 41, there's a seasonal theme and 4 Extra don't want to schedule it in its natural 'series 2' place if it doesn't coincide with Christmas week, and they are not sufficiently interested to schedule it that week in isolation.

* /understatement

[Paul Vanezis]

To all contributors of this thread, I've edited some posts to remove the use of the word 'socially aware'.

You may ask why...

No-one is using that word in the context of its true meaning and I don't want that kind of slang to become normal here. It's already been hijacked and used as a slang term, the meaning of that being politically and socially aware. It's not going to be hijacked further here. It's lazy and weak and some may regard the use of it as derogatory.

When someone writes "pre-socially aware", I read it as 'pre-socially and politically aware'. Clearly wrong, the opposite in fact of reality. The BBC and other broadcasters have been cutting material for taste and decency for years. They did it in every decade I have been alive, as have others so I don't see why people should suddenly be surprised that it is still happening. If you want to organise a project to preserve the uncut versions of 'The Burkiss Way', by all means go ahead.

That means that you're going to have to be 'socially aware' about it, that is to take note of the forum rules about file sharing and piracy. You see, there is a context in which you can use that word, even if it is a rubbish comparison, so it makes sense to anyone with an understanding of the English language.

Paul

[Stuart Monk]

Thanks for the voice of reason, Paul!
Stuart

[Ed Brown]

Mar 27, 2023 9:05:02 GMT darrenlee said:

This project is complicated by long term cuts and 'bans' which apply back to 2017 and way beyond:

Episode 6 - Never broadcast on 7/4 Extra (but this episode was issued on CD with the rest of series 1). There is a mystery as to whether a parody of a Harold MacMillan speech belongs to the episode.

Reason for 'ban': They can't be bothered to create a suitable time slot for this episode which is much shorter than all the rest.

Episode 28 - A sketch from the original broadcast which suggested that Reginald Bosanquet didn't mind the occasional tipple* was cut for all subsequent repeats.

Reason for cut: Team Bosanquet complained.

Episode 41 - Never broadcast on 7/4 Extra

Reason for 'ban': As the words 'Burkiss Way' and 'Easter Special' suggest, this was a Christmas Special, and as such does not fit in with series runs if, like the BBC, you can't particularly be bothered.

Episode 47 - All of many sections lampooning the BBC's grovelling approach to royalty in the original broadcast were cut for all subsequent repeats. The episode continued to be broadcast in its cut form despite being regularly played in full in 'Celebrate the Burkiss Way'.

Reason for cut: The BBC's grovelling approach to royalty - followed by not being sufficiently interested in the programme to bother re-instating it.

Episode 8 - Not repeated since 2013.

Reason for 'ban': As for episode 41, there's a seasonal theme and 4 Extra don't want to schedule it in its natural 'series 2' place if it doesn't coincide with Christmas week, and they are not sufficiently interested to schedule it that week in isolation.

* /understatement

Thank you for these details, I'm afraid my knowledge of Burkiss is appalling! Great show, but I'd no idea about all these problems. No one in the Burkiss group ever tells me anything!

[Ed Brown]

Mar 26, 2023 20:39:05 GMT John Wall said:

I’ve got some off air Burkiss Ways on compact cassette recorded in the early 1980s. I have no way of digitising them. The only one I recall an issue with is a spoof of the Masque of the Red Death which has a jump where something seems to be missing, but that’s how it was broadcast.

There is a Burkiss CD release, which I suspect will be more complete.

The problem, never clarified at the time, is that Radio 2 had an unhelpful policy of shoving out repeats in the 1980s by broadcasting Transcription Service vinyl edits, instead of airing the complete episode from the original broadcast tape.

Likely enough, the 'jump' you noticed is due to a poor quality edit on a vinyl disc, due to the slack practices of the old Transcription Service. I've heard such unprofessional cuts on their vinyl edits of The Navy Lark for instance.

I had a running battle with BBC management at the time, over this policy in regard to The Navy Lark, where their Sunday afternoon repeats at 5pm, in the half hour prior to Ch...Cheerful Ch...Charlie Ch...Chester, fluctuated between airing the complete tape some weeks, and in other weeks airing a hissy and cut vinyl edit. The correspondence on this topic got a bit heated at times!

I later heard various off-air tapes that indicated they also did this with the 1980s repeats of The Clitheroe Kid.