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Post by Robbie Moubert on Oct 28, 2020 2:03:52 GMT
Pic 5 is From Keys of Marinus Pic 7 is from the Chase Pic 8 is from Seeds of Death. Pic 4 maybe from Marinus. The only thing of interest seems to be be pic 6 of Troughton playing recorder. That could be from Underwater Menace 2. 3, 4, 5 & 7 are clearly from the Sky Ray advert and I'm baffled how you could think they were from anything else. 6 is from Enemy of the World episode 1; that's Troughton's finger by his mouth. 8 is a BBC globe.
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Oct 28, 2020 9:20:05 GMT
I don't quite get this, I have to say. Why would anyone telecine existing episodes? To pull a scam. All the pics the seller has put up come from existing episodes. Not a very clever scam. I mean, it's not as if anyone who knew about missing episodes wouldn't check those stills out. Richard
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Post by andyeves on Oct 28, 2020 9:33:02 GMT
To pull a scam. All the pics the seller has put up come from existing episodes. Not a very clever scam. I mean, it's not as if anyone who knew about missing episodes wouldn't check those stills out. Richard Assuming their latest listing goes for its starting price then they'll have made around £800. Hence I think many would classify this as a very clever scam (which does of course rely on gullible buyers) ... if indeed it is a scam.
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Post by Stephen Neve on Oct 28, 2020 14:33:47 GMT
Not a very clever scam. I mean, it's not as if anyone who knew about missing episodes wouldn't check those stills out. Richard Assuming their latest listing goes for its starting price then they'll have made around £800. Hence I think many would classify this as a very clever scam (which does of course rely on gullible buyers) ... if indeed it is a scam. There appears to be nothing missing on there so there really not worth the price asked. It's an obvious scam. Shill bidder comes in at last minute to make purchases. The purpose of this is to dupe a genuine fan into buying because the last item went for £399, therefore installing the idea that there is something missing on it, the shill bidder knows something we don't. Ebay is full of these type of scammers.
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Post by Stephen Neve on Oct 28, 2020 14:40:58 GMT
Pic 5 is From Keys of Marinus Pic 7 is from the Chase Pic 8 is from Seeds of Death. Pic 4 maybe from Marinus. The only thing of interest seems to be be pic 6 of Troughton playing recorder. That could be from Underwater Menace 2. 3, 4, 5 & 7 are clearly from the Sky Ray advert and I'm baffled how you could think they were from anything else. 6 is from Enemy of the World episode 1; that's Troughton's finger by his mouth. 8 is a BBC globe. 8. Is from seeds. Its from the opening moon sequence before the Seeds of Death appear on screen. 4 and 7 do look like the Ice Soldiers from Marinus. Troughtons finger? Looks like recorder to me. I have another look.
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Post by Stephen Neve on Oct 28, 2020 14:54:04 GMT
To pull a scam. All the pics the seller has put up come from existing episodes. Not a very clever scam. I mean, it's not as if anyone who knew about missing episodes wouldn't check those stills out. Richard Is Paul V going to look into this in case there is anything missing on it.
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Post by Robbie Moubert on Oct 28, 2020 15:55:18 GMT
8. Is from seeds. Its from the opening moon sequence before the Seeds of Death appear on screen. 4 and 7 do look like the Ice Soldiers from Marinus. Troughtons finger? Looks like recorder to me. I have another look. If 8 is from Seeds of Death why does it have the BBC logo across it? Go here and scroll down. Sky Ray Advert.
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Post by stevegerald on Oct 28, 2020 19:13:28 GMT
3, 4, 5 & 7 are clearly from the Sky Ray advert and I'm baffled how you could think they were from anything else. 6 is from Enemy of the World episode 1; that's Troughton's finger by his mouth. 8 is a BBC globe. 8. Is from seeds. Its from the opening moon sequence before the Seeds of Death appear on screen. 4 and 7 do look like the Ice Soldiers from Marinus. Troughtons finger? Looks like recorder to me. I have another look. No, Robbie's right. In fact, he mentions it in the description. "Also has some BBC idents, titles and DR.WHO ice lolly advert all filmed off tv screen"
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Post by Richard Bignell on Oct 28, 2020 21:25:32 GMT
I don't quite get this, I have to say. Why would anyone telecine existing episodes? To pull a scam. All the pics the seller has put up come from existing episodes. And where exactly is the scam? He's never said that any of the material is from any missing episodes. Given that it wasn't filmed in the 1960s but much later, it's not worth anything in the sense that it's unique material, but if someone wants to buy it as a curiosity, then it's up to them. People happily pay large amounts for the 16mm copies of episodes that Ian Levine had made in the 1980s that aren't materially worth all that much, so anything is worth what the buyer is willing to pay. And despite what you say, there's no evidence of shill bidding on these auctions.
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Post by andyeves on Oct 28, 2020 23:10:03 GMT
To pull a scam. All the pics the seller has put up come from existing episodes. And where exactly is the scam? He's never said that any of the material is from any missing episodes. Given that it wasn't filmed in the 1960s but much later, it's not worth anything in the sense that it's unique material, but if someone wants to buy it as a curiosity, then it's up to them. People happily pay large amounts for the 16mm copies of episodes that Ian Levine had made in the 1980s that aren't materially worth all that much, so anything is worth what the buyer is willing to pay. And despite what you say, there's no evidence of shill bidding on these auctions. Depends on what one classifies as a scam, but I can think of plausible scenarios that would constitute a scam in my book. For example > the seller says "Please bare in mind these fan filmed off tv. I acquired them in a box from a keen cinephile couple years ago. According to his widow he filmed so much stuff from 50's, 60's and 70's." ... when they actually filmed these themselves or > they claim not to know whether any clips are of missing footage when they know damn well that none are I guess we'll never know for sure. But my own personal opinion is that in all likelihood, the seller filmed these with a view to passing them off as 1960s off-screen footage (without ever guaranteeing it). But even if they were acquired in good faith from this widow, I find it highly unlikely that the seller hasn't verified whether any are of missing footage in the knowledge that they would have commanded a much higher price.
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Post by Richard Bignell on Oct 28, 2020 23:29:25 GMT
I guess we'll never know for sure. But my own personal opinion is that in all likelihood, the seller filmed these with a view to passing them off as 1960s off-screen footage (without ever guaranteeing it). But even if they were acquired in good faith from this widow, I find it highly unlikely that the seller hasn't verified whether any are of missing footage in the knowledge that they would have commanded a much higher price. But as you indicate, that's just pure guesswork on your part and none of it is verifiable. Personal suspicions don't make something a scam.
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Post by tombeveridge on Oct 28, 2020 23:56:25 GMT
Assuming their latest listing goes for its starting price then they'll have made around £800. Hence I think many would classify this as a very clever scam (which does of course rely on gullible buyers) ... if indeed it is a scam. There appears to be nothing missing on there so there really not worth the price asked. It's an obvious scam. Shill bidder comes in at last minute to make purchases. The purpose of this is to dupe a genuine fan into buying because the last item went for £399, therefore installing the idea that there is something missing on it, the shill bidder knows something we don't. Ebay is full of these type of scammers. If this were a scam with shill buyers, and the buyers have posted feedback on the previous auctions (which they have) it would make sense for them to post feedback on the 399 quid auction before launching the final auction. No such feedback has appeared however. If these are not bogus auctions, then the positive feedback indicates that the buyers seem to be well satisfied, and it's not my intent to comment on their judgment. Also, running four bogus auctions, just to con someone on the fifth auction, and paying eBay the fees on the first four, would seem not to be a very profitable activity. My guess is that the seller is being honest (he's been on eBay for four years with 100% positive feedback). Would I bid? No way! A case of caveat emptor.
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Post by andyeves on Oct 29, 2020 0:03:49 GMT
I guess we'll never know for sure. But my own personal opinion is that in all likelihood, the seller filmed these with a view to passing them off as 1960s off-screen footage (without ever guaranteeing it). But even if they were acquired in good faith from this widow, I find it highly unlikely that the seller hasn't verified whether any are of missing footage in the knowledge that they would have commanded a much higher price. But as you indicate, that's just pure guesswork on your part and none of it is verifiable. Personal suspicions don't make something a scam. Indeed, personal suspicions don't make something a scam. But we can all form our own personal opinion based on the known facts or even just gut feel, and there is plenty about this that causes me to conclude that in all likelihood, the seller is trying to pull the wool over our eyes. Just to clarify, I don't believe the theory that the previous bids have been sham bids to raise the price of future sales.
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Post by John Green on Oct 29, 2020 0:33:12 GMT
There's a Rupert Annual with a cover variance which is worth thousands of pounds. Only a dozen copies have the correct colouration out of the entire print run. I've bought the annual several times, thinking I'd gotten the rare 'un. (The colour-fault is counter-intuitive). I can never remember the particular point about the variation.
If, next time I find that year's annual, I don't bother to check the reference books/internet, I could quite honestly say "May be rare varient worth megabucks. Similar copies of that year's annual have fetched thousands. Not sure if this one is rare, but Rupert's face on the cover is a different colour to the interior illos. Interesting book." I'm not saying anything untrue, mainly because I'm keeping myself in blissful ignorance; not doing the buyer's work for him. Ignorance can be bliss, provided you cultivate it.
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Oct 29, 2020 8:45:11 GMT
Perhaps someone bought this on the off-chance that the seller themselves didn't know they had missing material.
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