The missing Hancocks

[Greg H]

I was just wondering if anyone could clarify a few point for me about the missing Hancocks half hours.

We all know that records can be innacurate, but how many of the first few seasons missing episodes are indicated to have actually been telerecorded or otherwise preserved?

Also I was wondering, what is the situation with overseas sales on the missing Hancocks?

I was just wondering what the theoretical potential for recovery of the missing Hancocks was. If anyone can help out I would be appreciative.

Cheers guys!!

[Andrew Doherty]

This question has appeared in another thread not so long ago.

There were seven BBC Hancock series shown between 1956 and 1961. The first six series went under the name 'Hancock's Half Hour' (with one exception mentioned below), and the final, seventh, series under the name 'Hancock'.

All of the fifth, sixth and seventh series exist as 16mm telerecordings. This was because of overseas sales (Canada, in particular).

None of the first series (six shows) from 1956 is known to exist, and only the first show from the second series (six shows) 'The Alpine Holiday' (April 1st, 1957), which, incidentally, is the only BBC Hancock show to survive featuring Kenneth Williams. Also, it was recorded at the request of the BBC Engineering Department for examination of the picture quality of the, then, newly installed 35mm stored field telerecording machines.

Five shows exist from the third series (twelve shows): Air Steward Hancock, The Lawyer, Competitions, There's An Airfield At The Bottom Of My Garden and a Christmas Special - Hancock's Forty-Three Minutes.

Five shows from the fourth series (thirteen shows) exist: Ericson The Viking, The Set That Failed, The New Nose, The Oak Tree and The Knighthood.

The shows that survive from the second, third and fourth series
were recorded on 35mm film stock.

It is known that all the fourth series was recorded, but only the five surviving shows were retained, and, unlike the other eight, were pre-recorded for sales purposes. In fact, the five surviving shows were pre-recorded for possible sales to the U.S.A. However, they did not take up the option. Canada did, and took up options on all future Hancock shows, which accounts for the existence of the subsequent twenty-six shows, i.e. the fifth series of ten shows, the sixth series of ten shows, and the seventh (final) series of six shows.

It has been rumoured that very poor quality recordings of missing shows from the fourth series may exist, e.g. Underpaid! Or Grandad's SOS (2-Jan-59)
The Flight Of The Red Shadow (23-Jan-59)
The Horror Serial (30-Jan-59)

Certainly, there are audio recordings of one or two of the above.

Though the other eight 35mm telerecordings from the fourth series were 'junked' sometime after all had been repeated in the summer of 1959, it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that a few were recorded off air by enthusiasts using a standard 8mm cine camera at 16 frames per second or a telerecording kit as described in the following article:

"In the 1950s a home telerecording kit was introduced in Britain, allowing enthusiasts to make 16mm film recordings of television programmes. The major drawback, apart from the short duration of a 16mm film magazine, was that a large opaque frame had to be placed in front of the TV set in order to block out any stray reflections - making it impossible to watch the set normally while filming. It is not known if any recordings made using this equipment still exist."

Whatever the truth of this, only time will tell.

Yours,

[Deleted]

I would have thought that the chances of missing fourth series t/rs turning up were just as likely / unlikely as other shows from the time turning up in the same way though (more likely than off screen cine film, though this isn't impossible).

Do you know why those missing episodes you list that are supposed to exist (e.g. Red Shadow etc.) would be such poor quality though, Andrew? They would obviously have been too early for home video recordings so it must mean they are just copies of better quality t/r originals that are out there somewhere.

[Greg H]

Aha, so the first season was transmitted live (as was the custom) and the BBC did not have telerecording facilites at the time? If thats the case then that is a pity as it pretty much rules out recovery.
So by the time of the second series the BBC did have telerecording facilities and the records and archives show that only one episode was telerecorded from this season. Pity.
So does anyone know if the records indicate that other season 3 and 4 shows were recorded and later junked?

Did the BBC have 16mm telerecording before the 35mm was installed do you know or am I clutching at straws here

I expect we'd all love to see the horror serial turn back up! Is there good quality audio for that episode do you know?

[Andrew Doherty]

To reply to both GH and Laurence Piper.

I have amended my above posting. It mentions the reason for the existence of the 'The Alpine Holiday' telerecording.

Yes, of course, the BBC had recording facilities. For thirty minutes of 35mm telerecording the cost was £230 in those days.

There is an audio copy of 'The Horror Serial'. I do not know who would have a copy. But the Tony Hancock Society may be able to help.

Now the rumours about the existence of amateur recording of such programming is not unreasonable. The last part of my posting gives the reason as to why it was possible.

You may remember, Mr Piper, someone sent in a posting on the pop music section of this web site stating that there were two 1958 shows recorded featuring Buddy Holly using the standard 8mm cine camera method I mentioned in my previous posting.

Well, Hancock's Half Hour did have a very large fan base and it is not unreasonable to suppose that enthusiasts might have taken advantage of the, then, existing methods of recording, to record such shows.

In a much earlier posting, on another thread, I mentioned a milkman who lived in Poole, Dorset. Sometime in the nineteen fifties he set up two 16mm cine cameras adjusted to film at 25 frames per second. These were pointed at two projection television sets, and, apparently, he made very reasonable off air recordings. Sadly, I was told his family, threw away the recordings. They did not think anyone would be interested.

It is possible that an engineering recording or two may exist.

Although nothing has surfaced, so far, there is every reason to consider that such rumours may be valid.

Yours,

ANDy

[Brian Fretwell]

gh said:

Aha, so the first season was transmitted live (as was the custom) and the BBC did not have telerecording facilites at the time? If thats the case then that is a pity as it pretty much rules out recovery.
So by the time of the second series the BBC did have telerecording facilities and the records and archives show that only one episode was telerecorded from this season. Pity.
So does anyone know if the records indicate that other season 3 and 4 shows were recorded and later junked?

Did the BBC have 16mm telerecording before the 35mm was installed do you know or am I clutching at straws here

I expect we'd all love to see the horror serial turn back up! Is there good quality audio for that episode do you know?

The BBBc had Supressed field 35mm telerecording at that time in fact even earlier as it was used for the Coronation in 1953.

[Deleted]

andy said:

You may remember, Mr Piper, someone sent in a posting on the pop music section of this web site stating that there were two 1958 shows recorded featuring Buddy Holly using the standard 8mm cine camera method I mentioned in my previous posting.
Well, Hancock's Half Hour did have a very large fan base and it is not unreasonable to suppose that enthusiasts might have taken advantage of the, then, existing methods of recording, to record such shows.

In a much earlier posting, on another thread, I mentioned a milkman who lived in Poole, Dorset. Sometime in the nineteen fifties he set up two 16mm cine cameras adjusted to film at 25 frames per second. These were pointed at two projection television sets, and, apparently, he made very reasonable off air recordings. Sadly, I was told his family, threw away the recordings. They did not think anyone would be interested. It is possible that an engineering recording or two may exist. Although nothing has surfaced, so far, there is every reason to consider that such rumours may be valid.

Even so, of the two possibilities, I still think it's more likely that a missing Hancock would turn up on t/r rather than 8mm (i'm sure such home movies are out there of various things but Hancock cine film is no more or less likely to turn up than cine film of other missing shows, of which there hasn't been much recovered compared to the multitude of t/rs that are frequently surfacing). Let's hope you're right and that something does turn up though.

You can use my first name, Andy, by the way. We're not that formal here, are we?

[Matthew K Sharp]

andy said:

Five shows exist from the third series (twelve shows): Air Steward Hancock, The Lawyer, Competitions, There's An Airfield At The Bottom Of My Garden and a Christmas Special - Hancock's Forty-Three Minutes.

And at least one other episode was film-recorded: #2, The Great Detective, on 16mm. It was repeated on 3 Sep 1958 as part of a series of 4 repeats. It has since been junked.

Five shows from the fourth series (thirteen shows) exist: Ericson The Viking, The Set That Failed, The New Nose, The Oak Tree and The Knighthood.

It is known that all the fourth series was recorded, but only the five surviving shows were retained, and, unlike the other eight, were pre-recorded for sales purposes.

The first four shows of Series 4 were pre-recorded on 35mm film so Hancock didn't have to do 13 straight weeks of live transmissions. The rest of the episodes were performed live.
All the live episodes were recorded on 35mm, and all but the last episode were repeated in mid-1959.
Given that 16mm wasn't considered high enough quality for broadcasting within the UK at that time, it seems just as likely that the episodes were recorded on 35mm with the intention of repeating them later in the year.

In fact, the five surviving shows were pre-recorded for possible sales to the U.S.A. However, they did not take up the option. Canada did, and took up options on all future Hancock shows

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but are you suggesting that Canada screened some of the 4th series episodes? If so, is there any documentary evidence?

It has been rumoured that very poor quality recordings of missing shows from the fourth series may exist, e.g. Underpaid! Or Grandad's SOS (2-Jan-59)
The Flight Of The Red Shadow (23-Jan-59)
The Horror Serial (30-Jan-59)

Certainly, there are audio recordings of one or two of the above.

There are audio recordings (albeit in lower-than-low fidelity) of all the missing Series 4 episodes bar #13 "The Servants".

I've never heard an even remotely convincing suggestion that any of them survive in vision. It seems to one of these rumours that keeps circulating because people keep saying "I've heard a rumour about this..."

it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that a few were recorded off air by enthusiasts using a standard 8mm cine camera at 16 frames per second or a telerecording kit (...)

Have any complete-ish recordings of *anything* come to light in this format?

[beatled]

;DI have a very poor quality audio-recording of Hancocks The Horror Serial its inaudible would love to hear a better recording or the video.

[emitron]

There were a suprising number of 16mm prints of Hancock episodes in private collections when I looked into this years ago. I checked through two collections and in both cases these were episodes which exist. The problem seems to be that only the complete series (last three) were sold abroad. All of the missing episodes are from earlier series, so there is only a very slim chance that they were retained.

However, with some of these being recorded on 35mm film, there is an even slimmer chance that they have been retained as an unchecked negative which has been wrongly catalogued. That couldn't be verified unless surviving materials were thoroughly checked. Perhaps they have been already, for the remastered repeats. If so, then even that hope is lost.

The only other possibility is an internal recording and as one of the surviving Hancocks was made as one, I guess others could have been made. As with much of this subject, it is all conjecture, but I do think we are very lucky that so much of the series have survived.