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Post by garygraham on Jan 12, 2019 21:12:32 GMT
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Post by samnurden on Jan 12, 2019 23:22:46 GMT
There wouldn't have been copies made for the UK. Enterprises produced the prints for overseas sale, not for domestic use. By that time, DMP had already been transmitted from the original videotapes. Enterprises would have had their set of master 16mm negatives though. Ahhhh, that's where I'm probably getting my wires crossed. I'm confusing the masters with the copies when I say we have (or well, had) our own. Interesting though, and it does make sense... But it's a shame they never made copies. If anything, it could have increased the chance of having more episodes than what we got.
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Post by Robbie Moubert on Jan 13, 2019 0:40:45 GMT
I'm confusing the masters with the copies when I say we have (or well, had) our own. It's a common problem on this forum when many people, including self-professed "researchers", lack a basic understanding of the formats and terminology involved.
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Jan 13, 2019 12:28:49 GMT
I'm confusing the masters with the copies when I say we have (or well, had) our own. It's a common problem on this forum when many people, including self-professed "researchers", lack a basic understanding of the formats and terminology involved. Yes. It's very frustrating, especially when people misuse the term telerecording. In fairness, prior to videotape when most programmes were live, the term was used to describe a recording on film of a live programme. However, the term is equally valid for a videotape recording because what it actually is used for is to differentiate between live and recorded programmes. When I look through BBC pasb forms it often indicates a programme being transmitted from tape and states the date the programme was telerecorded. These will be two inch tapes. All pre-recorded programmes are technically telerecordings. This can of course include film recordings, but a film recording is only a telerecording IF it's a direct film recording made of a programme as it went out live OR if it was entirely recorded direct to film in advance of a subsequent broadcast. So, a film recording of a programme originally transmitted on videotape is not a telerecording, but the videotape is. Paul
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Post by danharper on Jan 13, 2019 13:55:43 GMT
This Rediffusion brochure from mid/late 60s disagrees with you, Paul: rediffusion.retropia.co.ukIt lists videotape recordings as entirely separate from (film) telerecordings.So it looks like the usage of "telerecording" to denote film-shot-from-monitor is far from a misunderstanding by tyro Dr Who fans but a contemporaneous and widely understood industry term.
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Post by Richard Bignell on Jan 13, 2019 14:15:42 GMT
This Rediffusion brochure from mid/late 60s disagrees with you, Paul: rediffusion.retropia.co.ukIt lists videotape recordings as entirely separate from (film) telerecordings.So it looks like the usage of "telerecording" to denote film-shot-from-monitor is far from a misunderstanding by tyro Dr Who fans but a contemporaneous and widely understood industry term. Rediffusion are simply choosing to apply the term in one way in the brochure. Paul is quite correct though. The term applies to both. The point being made is here is that the term "telerecording" is not an exclusive reference to a film recording.
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Post by danharper on Jan 13, 2019 14:34:17 GMT
This Rediffusion brochure from mid/late 60s disagrees with you, Paul: rediffusion.retropia.co.ukIt lists videotape recordings as entirely separate from (film) telerecordings.So it looks like the usage of "telerecording" to denote film-shot-from-monitor is far from a misunderstanding by tyro Dr Who fans but a contemporaneous and widely understood industry term. Rediffusion are simply choosing to apply the term in one way in the brochure. Paul is quite correct though. The term applies to both. The point being made is here is that the term "telerecording" is not an exclusive reference to a film recording. Thanks Richard. I agree that the term was entirely interchangeable for film/VT recordings in the early 60s - the Dr Who PasBs confirm this - but this Rediffusion document, written for the benefit of industry professionals just a few years later, suggests that by that point the definition of the term had already narrowed. And sorry, but I really don't buy your "Rediffusion are simply choosing to apply the term in one way" explanation for one second! - the word is used to describe the only non-VT method of capturing the output of TV studios. Which is to film it off a monitor. My point is - this industry document from the late 60s uses the word "telerecording" to refer to a non-VT method (i.e. film) of capturing TV images, and the authors expected this usage to be understood by other industry professionals. Do you disagree?
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Post by Robbie Moubert on Jan 13, 2019 15:15:01 GMT
The point I was making earlier goes to an even simpler level with people using "print" and "tape" incorrectly.
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Jan 13, 2019 16:47:51 GMT
This Rediffusion brochure from mid/late 60s disagrees with you, Paul: rediffusion.retropia.co.ukIt lists videotape recordings as entirely separate from (film) telerecordings.So it looks like the usage of "telerecording" to denote film-shot-from-monitor is far from a misunderstanding by tyro Dr Who fans but a contemporaneous and widely understood industry term. Yes Dan, but the Rediffusion document is incorrect. The terminology was decided by the organisation that invented the processes. The BBC didn't care what Rediffusion did and they set the standard when it came to film recording. Part of the problem of course (and what you have discovered) is that not every organisation worked to the same standard. What does 'Telerecording' actually mean? A television recording? Or a recording off a screen? If you stick to the BBC's terminology (which I believe was also adopted by ATV) 'Film Recording' makes perfect sense. The comment 'Telerecorded on <INSERT DATE>' also makes sense. And the BBC didn't need to denote a videotape recording as the recording number indicated format etc... So I think I trust the terminology that the BBC used and other broadcasters, rather than a document produced by an organisation about to breathe its last. Paul
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Post by Richard Bignell on Jan 13, 2019 19:37:12 GMT
My point is - this industry document from the late 60s uses the word "telerecording" to refer to a non-VT method (i.e. film) of capturing TV images, and the authors expected this usage to be understood by other industry professionals. Do you disagree? They're not incorrect in stating that recording a live output to film is a telerecording, which I assume is what they're talking about in the brochure. It would mean exactly the same at the BBC. The point is that it's not the only meaning. The BBC used the term telerecording on their PasB/PasC's for recording all output onto videotape well into 1977 when they formally changed the documentation after which didn't need to include that information. What the term doesn't apply to is a later transfer of material to film.
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