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Post by George Weight on May 10, 2006 20:07:59 GMT
It's a funny old world. If there was a TV show about Missing TV could it do a bit of myth shattering? Yes, it could. Without going all over the place, let's (for fun) hit the usual myths.
1. What about episodes turning up in mysterious places. Mormon Churches? All true, but ex-BBC premises in some shape or form. The Mormon Church needs no steeple!
2. Who junked Doctor Who? Pamela Nash from BBC Enterprises? No, she just happened to unknowingly have the last surviving sets of film prints. The true 'culprits' are the late 60s/70s Production team. In most cases, each new producer signed away the previous regimes work. Not film prints, but master VT. So the names of Letts and Hinchcliffe are left on the paperwork for posterity? In one case, one of them later managed to allegedly wipe out part of an early ITV archive too! If Biddy Baxter had made DW, there would be very few missing programmes!
More generally (other TV shows)
3. They were all destroyed. Not so. Some TV programmes were junked by private contract. At least one of these contractors saved anything they deemed interesting. These prints leaked into the 16mm market in the mid 1980s on wards.
4. Known material. Are there still nice chunks of Missing TV out there? Yes. Is it known about? Yes.
5. Will more material turn up this year. Yes, for sure!
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Post by AGuest on May 10, 2006 20:27:44 GMT
'5' sounds good!
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Post by Daniel O'Brien on May 10, 2006 20:34:13 GMT
I second that, though if people have been holding onto film prints since the 1980s, why would they hand them over now? I know that 'Day of Armageddon' had been in the same hands for 30 years, but was this a typical example?
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Post by George Weight on May 12, 2006 10:33:11 GMT
Typical example of what?
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Post by Greg H on May 12, 2006 11:17:13 GMT
I would guess he ment a typical example of a private collector having missing footage in their collection, rather than a typical example of someone deliberately hoarding footage....... thats my guess.
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Post by WilliamM on May 12, 2006 11:23:23 GMT
I would be surprised if there wasn't at least 1 hoarder but I agree, that most are in the hands of innocent and unaware collectors
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Post by Tristan on May 12, 2006 11:30:47 GMT
Roger Barrett is a hoarder ;D
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Post by George Weight on May 12, 2006 13:53:30 GMT
There are collectors who knowingly bought 16mm missing tv in the 1990s are are hanging on to it!
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Post by Stuart Douglas on May 12, 2006 14:35:48 GMT
There are collectors who knowingly bought 16mm missing tv in the 1990s are are hanging on to it! Is that known for a fact rather than conjecture? |
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Post by George Weight on May 12, 2006 15:58:40 GMT
Fact.
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Post by MR Halfempty on May 12, 2006 16:05:07 GMT
sooner or later someone will ask you to name and shame and get nasty when you don't, then accuse you of being a liar and flounce off in a strop.
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Post by Daniel O'Brien on May 12, 2006 16:56:47 GMT
I don't know when the former BBC employee who returned 'Day of Armageddon' realized it was missing from the archive. He certainly had no way of knowing back in the 70s. It's a fair bet that many collectors with 'Doctor Who' episodes assumed the BBC retained master copies. Three decades on, it would be harder to claim ignorance. Most people with even the slightest interest in the show's history would know there are episodes missing. In the case of other shows, I can well believe that copies of lost episodes exist in private hands. There's never going to be the same level of interest or publicity. I can't see 'Blue Peter' launching a campaign to find lost episodes of 'Adam Adamant Lives' or 'The Avengers'.
As for collectors deliberately hoarding lost episodes, it's hard to say for sure and even harder to prove. I don't think the BBC can raid suspect premises. While the episodes remain BBC property, the general amnesty has been in force for some time. If someone really is holding on to 'The Tenth Planet' part 4, they're unlikely to announce it. Anyone who does claim to have it is almost certainly a hoaxer, who will disappear when asked to provide proof. That said, life is full of surprises. Maybe the return of the Cybermen this Saturday will yield unexpected benefits.
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Post by George Weight on May 12, 2006 18:45:19 GMT
sooner or later someone will ask you to name and shame and get nasty when you don't, then accuse you of being a liar and flounce off in a strop. Very true. It's none of anyone's business who has what, particularly as it would be unethical to mention names on the Internet, particularly when fans have the potential to cause friction. I do like these phrases like 'I can believe there are episodes out there'. I'm telling you there are, though none of them are Doctor Who. The vast majority of people don't know about missing TV. Try asking a few relations or workmates. I bet most of them don't care either. Given them the choice between a 16:9 high def digital drama and a 4:3 405 line film recording, they'd most likely choose the 16:9 drama. That doesn't mean that one is 'better' than the other, it just means that popular tastes have changed. That's why we now don't have 'Music Hall', 'The Eagle' comic or Lyons Teas shops. |
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Post by Lance C on May 13, 2006 10:00:21 GMT
[quote author=George Weight board=general thread=1147291679 post=1147459519
The vast majority of people don't know about missing TV. Try asking a few relations or workmates. I bet most of them don't care either. Given them the choice between a 16:9 high def digital drama and a 4:3 405 line film recording, they'd most likely choose the 16:9 drama. That doesn't mean that one is 'better' than the other, it just means that popular tastes have changed. That's why we now don't have 'Music Hall', 'The Eagle' comic or Lyons Teas shops. [/quote]
True, but in the 1960s Bob Monkhouse got young people interested in
Charlie Chaplin silent films again.
In the 1970s Laurel and Hardy were on the TV every Sunday, nobody cared less what condition the print was in, they were too busy laughing.
In the 1980s there was an Edward D Wood JRN revival.
So I belive its people from yesterday that have to sell it to people of today l .
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Post by George Weight on May 13, 2006 12:26:28 GMT
Yes, Lance, but all these examples were 210 to 40 years ago. I saw a Maigret episode in 1982 and the more recently. In 1982 it semed magically atmospheric. Now it looks old and creaky.
Everything has its day. I'm sure if you asked friends (not fans) to name a Charlie Chaplin film, they'd be hard pushed.
Films do have an advantage. Mostly the 35mm image can look wonderful on DVD. Old film recorded TV will never look that good. Compare a 35mm Avengers Rigg Episode to a 16mm Blackman.
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