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Post by John Wall on Mar 1, 2018 10:03:26 GMT
The tape on the side of that supposed Macra Terror can looks suspiciously clean and new. How were cans usually labelled? If they were stacked like slices of bread a label on the side would be useful.
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Mar 1, 2018 14:06:53 GMT
I’m curious if Australia Television Archives has comment on this can. If they’ve seen anything like it before.
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Post by Rich Hughes on Mar 2, 2018 11:37:24 GMT
ABC did have multiple prints of at least some episodes, when the censor clips were found at ABC in 1996 there were multiple copies of some of the same censor cuts.
It would make sense if each region had its own set of prints, more cost effective than sending films from one station to another.
Also, didn't Australia screen most, if not all stories twice? Apart from MTTU/DMP
Do we know if the BBC atually asked ABC to send back that crate of prints in 1975??? Or did ABC just ship them back to get shot of them???
I have 2 problems with the BBC asking ABC to return them -
1- ABC had been hanging onto these stories for years since their last official broadcast in Australia, so why didn't the BBC ask for their return years earlier which would have later saved them from making more prints to sell to other countries when sales of 60's stories were still high. By summer 1975 the sales of 60's stories was almost non existent, the 4 season five stories sold to Nigeria had already been screened by this point and I think only a few season 6 stories were sold to Zambia in 1976 were I think the last Hartnell/Troughton sales of the 70's.
2- The BBC had already started junking 60's prints by 1975 and most of the ABC returns suffered the same fate, so why not just tell ABC to destroy them instead of asking them to return the prints for the BBC to junk.
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Post by Arthur Chim on Mar 2, 2018 12:53:05 GMT
Do we know if the BBC atually asked ABC to send back that crate of prints in 1975??? Or did ABC just ship them back to get shot of them??? I suspect the ABC may have returned the bulk lot of stories due to colour transmission commencing full time in March 1975 so there would be no appeal in black & white programs and also that the screening rights would have expired by then.
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Post by Robert Lia on Mar 2, 2018 22:18:21 GMT
If you have a chance to look at Australian TV guides from the March 1975 period onwards you will see black and white programing continued to be transmitted by many stations even as color took hold. Many of the black and white programs had been purchased well in advance and were still screened while many Australian shows made in black and white were still repeated
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Post by John Wall on Mar 2, 2018 23:52:01 GMT
ABC did have multiple prints of at least some episodes, when the censor clips were found at ABC in 1996 there were multiple copies of some of the same censor cuts. It would make sense if each region had its own set of prints, more cost effective than sending films from one station to another. Also, didn't Australia screen most, if not all stories twice? Apart from MTTU/DMP Do we know if the BBC atually asked ABC to send back that crate of prints in 1975??? Or did ABC just ship them back to get shot of them??? I have 2 problems with the BBC asking ABC to return them - 1- ABC had been hanging onto these stories for years since their last official broadcast in Australia, so why didn't the BBC ask for their return years earlier which would have later saved them from making more prints to sell to other countries when sales of 60's stories were still high. By summer 1975 the sales of 60's stories was almost non existent, the 4 season five stories sold to Nigeria had already been screened by this point and I think only a few season 6 stories were sold to Zambia in 1976 were I think the last Hartnell/Troughton sales of the 70's. 2- The BBC had already started junking 60's prints by 1975 and most of the ABC returns suffered the same fate, so why not just tell ABC to destroy them instead of asking them to return the prints for the BBC to junk. Look at the data gallifreybase.com/w/index.php/Australia “On rare occasions, the same episode aired on the same day but in different states, which meant that multiple prints of some episodes may have existed, although there were other methods by which 'dual' transmissions across the different states could be achieved.” It’s possible that there were a few dupes and the censor clips might substantiate that. As I previously pointed out you need a negative to strike prints so, unless Auntie supplierd negatives, you have to go through a two stage process to make more prints from a print. Now, as Australia - as a large customer - were “offered” stories by being sent them it seems obvious that they were sent prints that could be viewed to make a decision. Then you have to remember that these regional stations weren’t just showing Dr Who, if you’re doing individual prints for Dr Who you’re doing individual prints for lots of programmes - and the cost increases.... When it can be seen that a story could take a year or eighteen months to be broadcast throughout Australia you have to start asking why (many) multiple prints were required. We’re looking at things that happened half a century ago - in a different world - but it looks that there was a bicycling network within Australia. I suspect that periodically. - maybe weekly, fortnightly or monthly - a pile of prints was shipped between stations. It may have been by road or air - because of the distances.
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Post by Jon Preddle on Mar 3, 2018 10:00:41 GMT
ABC did have multiple prints of at least some episodes, when the censor clips were found at ABC in 1996 there were multiple copies of some of the same censor cuts.. The only doubled censor clips come from The Dominators and Terror of the Autons ep2. But the clips with Balaton's death are from different episodes, not dupes of the same: one clip is from the end of part 4 and the other comes from the recap at the start of part 5. The censor records also show that two prints of Autons ep2 were submitted several months apart. I think that's far more likely that the first was lost or damaged and was replaced; the transmission dates clearly show there wasn't a need for two copies for broadcast purposes. This ep2 is the only one with two censorship submission requests. If any others had more than one copy, there would be more submissions on file.
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Post by John Wall on Mar 3, 2018 12:08:46 GMT
ABC did have multiple prints of at least some episodes, when the censor clips were found at ABC in 1996 there were multiple copies of some of the same censor cuts.. The only doubled censor clips come from The Dominators and Terror of the Autons ep2. But the clips with Balaton's death are from different episodes, not dupes of the same: one clip is from the end of part 4 and the other comes from the recap at the start of part 5. The censor records also show that two prints of Autons ep2 were submitted several months apart. I think that's far more likely that the first was lost or damaged and was replaced; the transmission dates clearly show there wasn't a need for two copies for broadcast purposes. This ep2 is the only one with two censorship submission requests. If any others had more than one copy, there would be more submissions on file. Thanks:-) Looks like the Aussies went for the economical solution!
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Mar 3, 2018 15:13:34 GMT
Logic inquiry: If there were multiple prints in Australia... Why would they do that and then make censor cuts to each print? Wouldn’t it be better to make the cuts, then copy the reel?
Thanks Jon for the explanation of the censor clips. That’s helpful.
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Post by Jon Preddle on Mar 4, 2018 10:10:12 GMT
Logic inquiry: If there were multiple prints in Australia... Why would they do that and then make censor cuts to each print? Wouldn’t it be better to make the cuts, then copy the reel? Thanks Jon for the explanation of the censor clips. That’s helpful. I guess the ABC didn't have the facilities to make broadcast standard film copies. But there is evidence of video taped copies made during transmission being supplied to remote mining communities. And in thius very forum sue butcher and marty Schulz have previously discussed VT copies being distributed.
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Post by Marty Schultz on Mar 5, 2018 1:31:07 GMT
My understanding is that copies were made and sent by train from Sydney to the various locations. A friend of mine whom is now an aging Technical Director worked in ABC tapes and claims that quads were used BUT apparently this doesn't equate with ABC paperwork. And No... he doesn't have any copies in the garden shed. Though he does have some appalling stories about live shows being wiped within 48hours of broadcast and similar.
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Post by Marty Schultz on Mar 5, 2018 1:37:04 GMT
So basically he is adamant that tapes were sent in mid late 60s and early 70s yet the paperwork says the machines weren't bought till later. I'll mention it again to him later this week and see if he can qualify the story. I'll show him the photo too.
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Post by John Wall on Mar 5, 2018 9:43:52 GMT
So basically he is adamant that tapes were sent in mid late 60s and early 70s yet the paperwork says the machines weren't bought till later. I'll mention it again to him later this week and see if he can qualify the story. I'll show him the photo too. It’s DATES that matter, things changed over time.
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Post by Sue Butcher on Mar 5, 2018 12:14:59 GMT
I don't think the ABC did have in-house facilities for copying and processing film, but in the era we're talking about news stories were almost always shot on 16mm film. Close to the studios in the major cities were film labs who depended on business from TV stations. An item filmed in the morning could be processed by lunchtime, edited in the afternoon, and broadcast on the evening news. So duplicates of film programmes could if necessary be made quickly and easily, though not all that cheaply. I don't recall entire programmes being copied while I worked there, but I did have to run old reels from the library to the film lab to get sections copied for the news editors to use. Copying a print wasn't difficult; the lab would use low-contrast duplicating reversal film in a one step process. No internegative was needed.
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Post by John Wall on Mar 5, 2018 13:54:38 GMT
I don't think the ABC did have in-house facilities for copying and processing film, but in the era we're talking about news stories were almost always shot on 16mm film. Close to the studios in the major cities were film labs who depended on business from TV stations. An item filmed in the morning could be processed by lunchtime, edited in the afternoon, and broadcast on the evening news. So duplicates of film programmes could if necessary be made quickly and easily, though not all that cheaply. I don't recall entire programmes being copied while I worked there, but I did have to run old reels from the library to the film lab to get sections copied for the news editors to use. Copying a print wasn't difficult; the lab would use low-contrast duplicating reversal film in a one step process. No internegative was needed. Interesting to know:-) But when was this?
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