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Post by Stephen Neve on Oct 28, 2016 9:01:24 GMT
edhodson.
I am delighted with Fraggle Rock finds. Its a show i enjoyed as a child.
I am certain Phil Morris has more missing Doctor Who but you need to learn to be patience, we all do.
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Post by simonashby on Oct 28, 2016 9:14:32 GMT
Well this is all a bit daft.
If people want to prioritise finding Fraggle Rock episodes, let them do so. It's not like Doctor Who hasn't been a priority for many over the years. It's not like people determined to find Doctor Who will suddenly forget about it if they come across a lead for another series. The search isn't binary in terms of what is being sought. I could go on...
I don't wish to be rude but I think it's just a lot of thinking and getting worked up for nothing, over nothing.
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Post by Stuart Douglas on Oct 28, 2016 9:26:38 GMT
No more Fraggle Rock finds, please. If there's a God in heaven... Bloody hell. This post is enough for me to search through the forum options to see if I can add a DISLIKE button. |
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Post by Matthew Kurth on Oct 29, 2016 12:49:11 GMT
If the top priority is to find Gobo’s School for Explorers instead of The Sea Beggar, or The Trial of Cotterpin Doozer rather than Rider From Shang-Tu then we truly do live in dark times. This really is the eleventh hour for missing Doctor Who. I think you're taking that comment out of context and it's referring to the top priority related to Fraggle Rock specifically or perhaps Henson shows more generally, I don't think anyone is actually saying recovery of localizations of FR are more important than, say, Apollo 11. But even if it I'm wrong, here's why: With the exception of the couple of Tom Baker episodes that were tinkered with after first broadcast, the likelihood of finding off-air recordings of Doctor Who with missing material is almost zero based solely on the penetration of home video recording units at the time. Recoveries of actual broadcast material is limited only to film which is either at the broadcaster or collector level. However, Fraggle Rock is very different. The parts of the show that are missing are local origination only so there aren't dozens of overseas broadcasters to recover masters from. It's a show that aired when almost everyone had a VCR and tape stock was cheap enough that many people had the luxury of recording something and then throwing it into a box rather than re-using the tape, especially if it was something recorded "for the kids". So it's very likely there are dozens of copies of this show out there somewhere, albeit on VHS or Betamax. But with SD video effectively dead and the advent of streaming, people who haven't thrown out their video collections are likely to do so in the near future (collectors notwithstanding) and only a handful of people even know anything from FR is even missing. So there is an urgency in this case because there's a much greater likelihood that the episodes exist in some form, but also a much greater likelihood that what exists will be discarded out of ignorance. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2016 14:20:01 GMT
No more Fraggle Rock finds, please. If there's a God in heaven... Bloody hell. This post is enough for me to search through the forum options to see if I can add a DISLIKE button. You're 100% right. But that was my initial (grumpy/jealous) view on the matter. Since then posters have pitched in on this thread with some some good remarks challenging that view. That should be the point of a thread, to put forward a view and have it challenged, and learn something new from it. Obviously, I'm not happy with the Fraggle Rock vs Doctor Who ME score, but as others have pointed out, we have a hell of a lot to be grateful for in terms of how much Who material is intact. Some good things have been said on here about cultural significance, that all ME is of great importance - no matter the show in question, and also we've examined whether a ME hunter should divert from a Who search to look for Fraggle Rock. Apologies if I have offended anyone from the Fraggle Rock community. |
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Post by Richard Marple on Oct 29, 2016 18:44:53 GMT
If the top priority is to find Gobo’s School for Explorers instead of The Sea Beggar, or The Trial of Cotterpin Doozer rather than Rider From Shang-Tu then we truly do live in dark times. This really is the eleventh hour for missing Doctor Who. I think you're taking that comment out of context and it's referring to the top priority related to Fraggle Rock specifically or perhaps Henson shows more generally, I don't think anyone is actually saying recovery of localizations of FR are more important than, say, Apollo 11. But even if it I'm wrong, here's why: With the exception of the couple of Tom Baker episodes that were tinkered with after first broadcast, the likelihood of finding off-air recordings of Doctor Who with missing material is almost zero based solely on the penetration of home video recording units at the time. Recoveries of actual broadcast material is limited only to film which is either at the broadcaster or collector level. However, Fraggle Rock is very different. The parts of the show that are missing are local origination only so there aren't dozens of overseas broadcasters to recover masters from. It's a show that aired when almost everyone had a VCR and tape stock was cheap enough that many people had the luxury of recording something and then throwing it into a box rather than re-using the tape, especially if it was something recorded "for the kids". So it's very likely there are dozens of copies of this show out there somewhere, albeit on VHS or Betamax. But with SD video effectively dead and the advent of streaming, people who haven't thrown out their video collections are likely to do so in the near future (collectors notwithstanding) and only a handful of people even know anything from FR is even missing. So there is an urgency in this case because there's a much greater likelihood that the episodes exist in some form, but also a much greater likelihood that what exists will be discarded out of ignorance. I mostly agree but there's a chance an episode or 2 of 3rd Doctor's stories not surviving in colour might turn up in a collection. |
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John Wall
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Post by John Wall on Oct 29, 2016 23:53:38 GMT
I think you're taking that comment out of context and it's referring to the top priority related to Fraggle Rock specifically or perhaps Henson shows more generally, I don't think anyone is actually saying recovery of localizations of FR are more important than, say, Apollo 11. But even if it I'm wrong, here's why: With the exception of the couple of Tom Baker episodes that were tinkered with after first broadcast, the likelihood of finding off-air recordings of Doctor Who with missing material is almost zero based solely on the penetration of home video recording units at the time. Recoveries of actual broadcast material is limited only to film which is either at the broadcaster or collector level. However, Fraggle Rock is very different. The parts of the show that are missing are local origination only so there aren't dozens of overseas broadcasters to recover masters from. It's a show that aired when almost everyone had a VCR and tape stock was cheap enough that many people had the luxury of recording something and then throwing it into a box rather than re-using the tape, especially if it was something recorded "for the kids". So it's very likely there are dozens of copies of this show out there somewhere, albeit on VHS or Betamax. But with SD video effectively dead and the advent of streaming, people who haven't thrown out their video collections are likely to do so in the near future (collectors notwithstanding) and only a handful of people even know anything from FR is even missing. So there is an urgency in this case because there's a much greater likelihood that the episodes exist in some form, but also a much greater likelihood that what exists will be discarded out of ignorance. I mostly agree but there's a chance an episode or 2 of 3rd Doctor's stories not surviving in colour might turn up in a collection. An off air colour version of Invasion of the Dinsours 1 would be nice but Planet of the Daleks 3 from the colourisation/colour recovery would be difficult to improve upon. |
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Post by keithmchugh on Oct 30, 2016 16:50:48 GMT
I mostly agree but there's a chance an episode or 2 of 3rd Doctor's stories not surviving in colour might turn up in a collection. An off air colour version of Invasion of the Dinsours 1 would be nice but Planet of the Daleks 3 from the colourisation/colour recovery would be difficult to improve upon. There's always a chance someone recorded Invasion of the Dinosaurs off-air in colour. In 1974 I think you'd have the choice of Philips VCR (N1500) or Low Band U-Matic. The colour version of the EIAJ-1 reel to reel was probably out then too. Was it only shown in colour in the UK or did a colour version make it to the USA or Australia? |
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Post by Sue Butcher on Nov 1, 2016 5:46:24 GMT
(IOTD not shown in Australia at the time. When it was shown later, ep1 was in BW.))
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Post by scotttelfer on Nov 1, 2016 14:23:22 GMT
An off air colour version of Invasion of the Dinsours 1 would be nice but Planet of the Daleks 3 from the colourisation/colour recovery would be difficult to improve upon. There's always a chance someone recorded Invasion of the Dinosaurs off-air in colour. In 1974 I think you'd have the choice of Philips VCR (N1500) or Low Band U-Matic. The colour version of the EIAJ-1 reel to reel was probably out then too. Was it only shown in colour in the UK or did a colour version make it to the USA or Australia? It was only in the UK. There were no foreign broadcasts until after Episode 1 came back if I remember correctly (the Australians had been sent a black and white copy, approved it, then asked for a colour copy to be sent, by that point Episode 1 had already been wiped so Australia didn't broadcast the story and that screwed up everyone else). |
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Post by Ralph Rose on Nov 1, 2016 17:29:45 GMT
The United States didn't broadcast this either until after part one in black and white was returned.
Also, Planet of the Daleks, and Invasion of the Dinosaurs were edited for the U.S. to remove the black and white episodes. The episodic versions of these had reedited starting credits, renumbering the episodes.
Planet of the Daleks for example:
: Episode 1 = 1
: Episode 2 = 2
: Episode 3 = 4
: Episode 4 = 5
: Episode 5 = 6
And Invasion of the Dinos as follows...
: Episode 2 = 1
: Episode 3 = 2
: Episode 4 = 3
: Episode 5 = 4
: Episode 6 = 5
This has in the past made recovering a color copy of "Invasion" of the Dinosaurs episode one and Planet three, more dificult as people mistakenly think their edited (messed with) VHS or Betamax copies of the renumbered part one and three (respectively) are actually part two and four.
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Simon Collis
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I have started to dream of lost things
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Post by Simon Collis on Nov 1, 2016 18:08:09 GMT
Every missing episode of every show returned gives us more hope that more Who, more Avengers, more everything will be found. It spreads awareness, it shows people there's hope, and it just might get to the person who thinks "what about grandad's collection of 16mm films - maybe I should talk to someone instead of just throwing them out".
So bring on the Fraggle Rock, the Z Cars, the Horizon, Panorama, Quatermass, let's find it. All of it. Even Topless Darts if need be.
I may never want to watch Fraggle Rock, but someone will. Maybe to judge the cultural importance of it. Someone who's a proper Henson historian, maybe? Or maybe we'll find there's a song in there written by someone yet-to-become-super-famous.
Or maybe just because we shouldn't let our history go. If the destruction of Palmyra by Islamic State horrifies you (and it should), then so should (although on a lesser scale) the loss of Fraggle Rock.
Because it's all our shared cultural heritage, it's all important.
And that's why we look. That's why we care.
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Post by Richard Marple on Nov 1, 2016 18:12:40 GMT
While weekend morning TV was considered "disposable" there were plenty of interesting guests & performances over the years that would have been worth keeping.
As for messing about with episodes I remember reading that the Seeds Of Doom part 1 tape went missing just before it was broadcast & there were plans to postpone Dr Who for a week while an emergency edit was carried out. This would have been parts 1 & 2 combined together, I presuming the studio tapes.
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Post by Richard Bignell on Nov 1, 2016 18:56:21 GMT
Hinchcliffe was planning an emergency reedit when Part 1 went missing for a while, but I've never seen that there was any intention to postpone the broadcast by a week. He certainly gave no indication of it when interviewed at the time.
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Post by Richard Marple on Nov 1, 2016 20:23:50 GMT
OK maybe I misunderstood something in DWM or a website.
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