Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2016 23:43:29 GMT
Life is cruel. Depressing news to be found, among this good news: observationdeck.kinja.com/lost-episode-of-the-avengers-rediscovered-after-55-year-1787383187In the light of the fact 97 episodes of Doctor Who are still missing, I just don't believe what I'm reading here: And then the search is described as this: Furthermore, the one final nail in the coffin for ME Who fans is this mention: No, we don't have any Fury from the Deep, but naturally, its writer's other works such as Fraggle Rock just have to show up, don't they? If the top priority is to find Gobo’s School for Explorers instead of The Sea Beggar, or The Trial of Cotterpin Doozer rather than Rider From Shang-Tu then we truly do live in dark times. This really is the eleventh hour for missing Doctor Who. Will someone of authority, Paul Vanezis, Richard Bignell, anyone in the know, please speak up in this unbearable silence. Give us hope. Tell us something of substance is coming, even if its mere clips. It's been a hell of a long time since i-tunes Friday. No more Fraggle Rock finds, please. If there's a God in heaven...
|
|
|
Post by Alastair Fleming on Oct 27, 2016 0:10:28 GMT
Surely the news of any missing episodes being returned is good news, it proves there's still more out there (including The Web Of Fear Episode 3, somewhere). I'm sure we'll hear more before too long. If they can find a series one Avengers (which I've heard is an very rare thing to find) they can find some more Doctor Who. They'll just make a much bigger announcement for a Doctor Who find, so that'll need preparing.
|
|
|
Post by Alan Hayes on Oct 27, 2016 0:36:59 GMT
There are more things in heaven and earth and episode recoveries than Doctor Who, and thank goodness for that. And I say that as a Doctor Who fan.
The thing that is more newsworthy than the tired old "it's not worth bothering about if it's not Doctor Who" is just how a hugely popular series like Fraggle Rock can be lost in the era of home video and supposed archival preservation. THAT's what I find depressing, not that these finds aren't 60s Doctor Who.
Obviously, I would love to hear an announcement about missing Doctor Who, should one be forthcoming at any point, but in the meantime I'm happy to keep an open mind and even if some recovered shows are not to my tastes (and I include Fraggle Rock in that description) I can understand that to some they are special. Every recovery has value and should be applauded.
|
|
RWels
Member
Posts: 2,897
|
Post by RWels on Oct 27, 2016 7:43:50 GMT
What an ungrateful, jealous, and spoiled position to take, if I may say so. I know that this section is good at straw clutching, but begrudging finds for other shows is a new low. DW is extremely well off compared to other series. Not just in percentages, but also in that everything survives at least as audio, and all of that video and audio has been released on DVD, with extras. Including some stuff that is, let's be honest, not so brilliant, need I mention "Space Museum"? Look at this site's main page and the list of programs with missing episodes - that's just some examples, there's more on lostshows. Some of them were made by very talented people. Many of those programs are completely gone, nothing left at all. Or how many series are there not that still exist, but that we cannot see because they're just sitting in some archive unreleased and unrepeated? Sorry to be so judgemental, but please try to see the bigger picture beyond your own personal favourites/needs.
Also, Fraggle Rock is from a completely different time, recovering VHS tapes doesn't influence the chances for DW in any way at all. Nothing to do with each other.
|
|
Ace St.John
Member
Enter your message here...
Posts: 139
|
Post by Ace St.John on Oct 27, 2016 14:31:42 GMT
Yea. Fragile Rock is a 1980's show and you only have to compare how well 80's Who has fared to see that us Whovians (to use an American term) are quite well off. Apart from perhaps one slightly damaged master tape - now fixed I think and perhaps there is some 16mm location film sought after (I could be wrong here) our archive from at least 1976 onwards seems to be fairly intact. I have fond memories of Fragile Rock and I am sure it is better than most kids tv these days. I think it is a wee bit of a travesty that there are so many broadcast tapes missing when it was made relatively recently. I obviously don't regard it as important as Who and that's because I am a Who fan! And I do get the humour and tongue in cheek irony of your post but RWels is right it is low to resent recoveries of other shows just because they're non who . As archivists we should be keen on the preservation of all material albeit even if it is not of our own personal obsession! 👍
|
|
|
Post by John Green on Oct 27, 2016 15:36:15 GMT
The Horror of Fraggle Rock.
Fulton McKay was the lighthouse-keeper in Fraggle (which I believe are the bits missing) and was in The Silurians.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2016 20:38:29 GMT
What an ungrateful, jealous, and spoiled position to take, if I may say so. I know that this section is good at straw clutching, but begrudging finds for other shows is a new low. DW is extremely well off compared to other series. Not just in percentages, but also in that everything survives at least as audio, and all of that video and audio has been released on DVD, with extras. Including some stuff that is, let's be honest, not so brilliant, need I mention "Space Museum"? Look at this site's main page and the list of programs with missing episodes - that's just some examples, there's more on lostshows. Some of them were made by very talented people. Many of those programs are completely gone, nothing left at all. Or how many series are there not that still exist, but that we cannot see because they're just sitting in some archive unreleased and unrepeated? Sorry to be so judgemental, but please try to see the bigger picture beyond your own personal favourites/needs. Also, Fraggle Rock is from a completely different time, recovering VHS tapes doesn't influence the chances for DW in any way at all. Nothing to do with each other. Fair points, RWels, and yes, you're spot on, I am jealous of the fact there are only 9 missing Fraggle Rock episodes, and that it seems so long ago we got exactly that number of Doctor Who episodes returned on i-tunes Friday. The irony! So, on balance, Fraggle Rock gets a lot of love on this thread. But do ME fans think it has the same level of 'top priority search' as Doctor Who? Is it just as important culturally as The Avengers and Doctor Who? If (for e.g.) Phil Morris got an exclusive tip off that a vhs recording of the Fraggle Rock episode Gobo’s School for Explorers was in a loft in someone's house in Birmingham, should he divert from his leads in Ghana (for e.g.) to investigate that tape, even if it meant a delay to the recovery of more Who? What do people on here think?
|
|
George D
Member
Posts: 1,803
Member is Online
|
Post by George D on Oct 27, 2016 21:06:11 GMT
I'm a Dr who fan. But I also appreciate fraggle, Muppets, henson, etc. To destroy all the UK editions of a culturally important show is incomprehenseable. Fortunately, they are showing up.
Maybe 9 still missing, but when you put it in comparison, the home recording of the 60s was audio and we have audio of all existing who audios.
While I love Dr who, and Dr who will always be the poster child of missing episodes, we need to preserve other things also. How I wish people audio recrecorded other missing classic shows like Adam adamant, out of the unknown, doom watch, a for Andromeda, avengers 1, etc and perhaps if we had less tunnel vision in the 80s, more audios of these would exist. Yes preserving Dr who Is important, but preserving these other shows is also important. And I'm glad a universal effort is being made
|
|
|
Post by Alan Hayes on Oct 27, 2016 21:25:22 GMT
I do wonder if back in 2013 all the Fraggle Rock fans were bemoaning the Doctor Who recoveries as being the "final nail in the coffin" of the Fraggle Rock ME search...
|
|
|
Post by Alan Hayes on Oct 27, 2016 23:31:59 GMT
Fair points, RWels, and yes, you're spot on, I am jealous of the fact there are only 9 missing Fraggle Rock episodes, and that it seems so long ago we got exactly that number of Doctor Who episodes returned on i-tunes Friday. The irony! So, on balance, Fraggle Rock gets a lot of love on this thread. But do ME fans think it has the same level of 'top priority search' as Doctor Who? Is it just as important culturally as The Avengers and Doctor Who? If (for e.g.) Phil Morris got an exclusive tip off that a vhs recording of the Fraggle Rock episode Gobo’s School for Explorers was in a loft in someone's house in Birmingham, should he divert from his leads in Ghana (for e.g.) to investigate that tape, even if it meant a delay to the recovery of more Who? What do people on here think? Jealous? Really? As has been said elsewhere in this thread, as Doctor Who fans you and I are incredibly lucky. There are audios for every missing episode, bags of photos, tele-snaps, interviews recorded with just about everyone who even coughed somewhere in the background of a lost Doctor Who episode; for other series there is a far less impressive preservation rate - Z Cars, for instance, another culturally important television series, has 454 episodes completely missing from 799 made, while Dixon of Dock Green has just 34 episodes surviving from 434 made. You might argue that Fraggle Rock is less culturally important than either of these shows or Doctor Who, but it shouldn't be an overriding concern whether something is culturally important or not when trying to find missing material. It's not really for us, as biased observers, to decide what is culturally important anyway. The point is that a search for Fraggle Rock, or Z Cars or The Avengers, doesn't preclude the search for Doctor Who material. Organisations like Kaleidoscope don't target specific series beyond thinking "it would be nice to find an Ace of Wands" (for instance) - they look out potential sources of missing material and rightly take what comes as a result. Obviously the big hitter recoveries, your Doctor Whos and Dad's Armys, are great in that they are current mainstream hits and therefore bring publicity to the campaign to recover lost television, but to those organisations - and me as a fan of archive television in general - a Hugh and I or a No Hiding Place, or yes, a Fraggle Rock, is just as important, and rightly so.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2016 23:35:42 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Alan Hayes on Oct 27, 2016 23:57:12 GMT
Haha! Which just goes to show that for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction.
|
|
|
Post by ianphillips on Oct 28, 2016 0:29:52 GMT
Hold on, that comment was made 55 minutes ago.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2016 0:58:06 GMT
Hold on, that comment was made 55 minutes ago. Maybe the poster was caught in a timescoop, which brought them unknowingly forward to 55mins ago - just as they were finishing typing and pressing enter? In the world of Who, missing or otherwise, you just never know.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2016 1:31:57 GMT
While I agree that we are incredibly lucky in terms of resources for what Who material is missing, Fraggle Rock was from a different period altogether, so cannot be compared with Who in terms of 'richness of resources'.
For example, while there may be audios somewhere out there of Fraggle Rock missing episodes, we can most assuredly rule out the possibility of a set of telesnaps for The Trial of Cotterpin Doozer. John Cura had passed away long before the UK premier of Fraggle Rock. It would have been interesting, though, to see what he would have recorded, had he lived into the full colour age of television.
|
|