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Post by Mark Brown on Feb 17, 2006 10:56:17 GMT
anyone know?
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Post by Nosmo King on Feb 17, 2006 11:15:25 GMT
Almost certainly the first episode "The Benefits of Earth" as a VHS copy of that was circulating amongst fans in the 1990s if not earlier.
I've not heard of any other recent discoveries from the series .. so in the absence of confirmed details I suspect the above is all that survives.
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Post by Laurence Piper on Feb 17, 2006 12:10:32 GMT
I saw the episode that exists at the ICA, Mark, in the late '80s. The Benefits Of Earth (which is episode 1) seems to be the one as I recall it had Thorley Waters in it (and I just checked the cast lists for the episode and he's in that one). It was the one about the windmills that I saw.
I wonder what happened to the masters after the bothched transfers of the rest of the episodes though? That's the story anyway...
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Post by ethantyler on Feb 17, 2006 18:25:19 GMT
It's definitely The Benefits of Earth that survives.
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Post by Anon01 on Feb 19, 2006 14:12:05 GMT
Have you looked on the ITN Archive site? That'll tell you what Granada hold. www.itnarchive.com |
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Post by Nosmo King on Feb 19, 2006 14:28:51 GMT
Have you looked on the ITN Archive site? That'll tell you what Granada hold. www.itnarchive.comDoesn't absolutely actually confirm a programme's survival though .. e.g. all episodes of "The Georgian House" are listed there .. yet only eps 1 and 7 are actually in the archive as tape copies (3 exists in private hands on VHS - the rest are lost). Just because something is listed does NOT mean that a copy survives - just that the "paperwork" for the show is intact. |
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Post by Laurence Piper on Feb 20, 2006 10:34:19 GMT
Yes, the ITN database shouldn't be taken as fact of what exists in the archives. It has plenty of entries for shows that probably don't survive. Maybe one day they'll get round to amending it.
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John Stewart Miller
Guest
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Post by John Stewart Miller on May 6, 2006 23:08:23 GMT
Well I've checked and the ITN archive appears to list, in different order: Benefits of earth, people isn't everything, the love reflector and quick and the dead, but not the other two so it would appear to not be a broadcasts listing. And implies four exist? |
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Post by Nosmo King on May 7, 2006 13:54:28 GMT
The BFI - who hold the LWT quads - list only the first episode: ftvdb.sigmer.net/show/detail/titleseries/741730/Unline the ITN database, the BFI one only lists those programmes it actually holds. As the other quads are not listed .. they bit the dust before the remastering to D2 in the 90s. |
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Post by Anon on May 9, 2006 18:11:35 GMT
The BFI - who hold the LWT quads - list only the first episode: ftvdb.sigmer.net/show/detail/titleseries/741730/Unline the ITN database, the BFI one only lists those programmes it actually holds. As the other quads are not listed .. they bit the dust before the remastering to D2 in the 90s. Does that database really show the BFI holdings? If it does, they list quite a bit of stuff that I'd understood to be missing from the BBC archives: The Wine of India, plus episodes of R3, The Big Pull, The Monsters, The Escape of RD7, Counterstrike... Apologies if I'm missing something incredibly obvious! |
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Post by Nosmo King on May 9, 2006 18:21:02 GMT
Usually the BFI do indeed list what they hold ... e.g. only two eps of "The Georgian House" and all of "King of the Castle" except episode 3.
However .... anything they DON'T list .. like all the "Don Quick" EXCEPT the first episode ... they certainly DON'T have and can be regarded as lost (unless things exist in private hands) ... as regards *incomplete* series.
There will be no doubt things listed that they don't have .. but the paperwork indicates they do. I suspect "Wine of India" is one of those.
Summarising .. check out the "not there" for incomplete series listings ... any installments not listed can be regarded as lost.
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Post by Simon Exton on May 9, 2006 19:32:46 GMT
Usually the BFI do indeed list what they hold ... e.g. only two eps of "The Georgian House" and all of "King of the Castle" except episode 3. However .... anything they DON'T list .. like all the "Don Quick" EXCEPT the first episode ... they certainly DON'T have and can be regarded as lost (unless things exist in private hands) ... as regards *incomplete* series. There will be no doubt things listed that they don't have .. but the paperwork indicates they do. I suspect "Wine of India" is one of those. Summarising .. check out the "not there" for incomplete series listings ... any installments not listed can be regarded as lost. OK, I'm afraid I'm horribly confused by this- and, as I said, I suspect I'm being very stupid and missing something obvious. When I first saw the site, I'd assumed it was simply an information site rather than an archive listing. For some series that are incomplete in the archives, it gives a full episode listing (Quatermass Experiment, A For Andromeda, The Wednesday Play, Out of the Unknown, Out of this World, Late Night Horror) and for others (Doctor Who, The Avengers) this listing's incomplete and includes episodes that don't exist in the archives (Doctor Who's Marco Polo, Reign of Terror and Planet of the Daleks 3 and most of The Avengers season 1: Hot Snow, Brought to Book and every episode from Dance With Death onwards), while not including episodes that do exist (Most of Doctor Who's Invasion, Day of the Daleks pt 4, Frontier in Space 1). If it was just an information site, surely both Dr Who and The Avengers are so widely known it would be easy to provide full episode guides? Next, there are series where just a few episodes are listed: Doomwatch, Adam Adamant Lives!, Counterstrike. All of these seem to only list episodes that exist in the archives (the only exception to that I could find was Counterstrike's "Backlash"). Finally, a lot of shows only list the first episode and quite a few of these are first episodes that don't exist to the best of my knowledge: R3, The Monsters, The Big Pull, The Escape of RD7 and two of the Sierra Nine serials (The Brain Machine and The Elixir of Life). Also a one-off plays that apparently isn't in the BBC archive is listed: The Canterville Ghost (1962). I know that much of Doctor Who's sixth season survived the junking because copies were held by the BFI. At the time they were returned there possibly wasn't much attention paid to other more obscure series. It's tempting to think that with everything that's listed on that website there may be one or two things that havent been found elsewhere. Is there any way someone with some official standing could check with them? |
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Post by H Hartley on May 9, 2006 20:30:38 GMT
IMHO
I would have thought it would have been more useful for the BFI to provide a list on what THEY actually have ..or at least mark the pages with ' paper records only ' or something
rather than competing with sites like IMDB and the countless fan sites which list episodes anyway.
A lost opportunity to encourage more use of their facilities
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Post by Simon Exton on May 9, 2006 21:39:34 GMT
IMHO I would have thought it would have been more useful for the BFI to provide a list on what THEY actually have ..or at least mark the pages with ' paper records only ' or something rather than competing with sites like IMDB and the countless fan sites which list episodes anyway. A lost opportunity to encourage more use of their facilities Well, it does say on the site that the information came originally from the index cards of the NFTVA describing their holdings. If that's the case, might it be possible that a few of the isolated shows they list actually exist in their archive? After all, if you're putting in information about an obscure program like The Escape of RD7 or The Monsters, why only list the first episode? Even if it were only to result in the return of a single episode of something, wouldn't it be worth asking the question? |
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