power animation?

[Deleted]

Aug 21, 2016 21:50:11 GMT Owen Conway said:

Aug 21, 2016 20:20:31 GMT @thelost106 said:

Or, because what you saw on YouTube is intended to be used for the Power of the Daleks DVD for the episodes that so far haven't been discovered among those that have? (And please God, don't let it one of those not found be Episode 1!)

More likely though is that it was part of a test that was done some years ago to look at the possibility of doing Power as a entirely animated DVD. This is mentioned in Doctor Who: The Dalek Handbook by James Goss and Steve Tribe (2011), along with photos. Sorry, don't have a copy of the book to hand to mention which animation company it was (Cosgrove?) or what page its referenced on, but this is more likely what that clip was from.

Nope. That has been debunked. The Cosgrove Hall animation and this latest one are similar, but they are different if you look closely. This latest animation wasn't done by Cosgrove Hall.

Good to hear that, Owen.

Roll on this event, then -

www.starburstfilmfest.co.uk/festival-guests/philip-morris

This time next week we may know more, and from a reliable source at that!

[ianphillips]

Woah, something just occurred to me. The only serials with animated episodes are those that are almost complete. Why would they suddenly decide to animate a missing serial unless...could they have...there were only segments of animations for episodes 2, 4, and 5. Could at least part of the serial have been found?

[Deleted]

Aug 21, 2016 22:39:20 GMT ianphillips said:

Woah, something just occurred to me. The only serials with animated episodes are those that are almost complete. Why would they suddenly decide to animate a missing serial unless...could they have...there were only segments of animations for episodes 2, 4, and 5. Could at least part of the serial have been found?

That's exactly it. With only 1 set of film prints of The Power of the Daleks sent to New Zealand, and then to Singapore, we'd be enormously lucky to see even two or three complete episodes recovered. Such a ridiculously impossible discovery of that sort though would surely justify animating the rest. Unless other prints of Power were made prior to the wiping of the master tapes? Prints that no-one, as yet, knows about?

[George D]

We are jumping to a, lot of conclusion.
First that it was BBC made.
It looks great but most of the scenes are from existing footage. Also from many episodes
It could be test footage, it could be from a fan animation,
And if it was bbc, because the amount of prints of power made are so small that it is one of the least likely to be recovered stories.
I'm thinking if it was bbc connected it's likely a stsnd alone animation rather than a recovery.

[Deleted]

Aug 22, 2016 0:02:06 GMT George D said:

We are jumping to a, lot of conclusion.
First that it was BBC made.
It looks great but most of the scenes are from existing footage. Also from many episodes
It could be test footage, it could be from a fan animation,
And if it was bbc, because the amount of prints of power made are so small that it is one of the least likely to be recovered stories.
I'm thinking if it was bbc connected it's likely a stsnd alone animation rather than a recovery.

That's a good point about the animation being from many episodes, George, which I guess rules out the notion of a recovery of, for example, episodes 1-3. But we still haven't got to the bottom of why the animation was removed from YouTube. Or even put on there, without much explanation.

Meanwhile here's a good article on the removed clip -

thedoctorwhocompanion.com/2016/08/20/is-power-of-the-daleks-being-animated-for-a-dvd-release/

[ianphillips]

Aug 22, 2016 0:02:06 GMT George D said:

We are jumping to a, lot of conclusion.
First that it was BBC made.
It looks great but most of the scenes are from existing footage. Also from many episodes
It could be test footage, it could be from a fan animation,
And if it was bbc, because the amount of prints of power made are so small that it is one of the least likely to be recovered stories.
I'm thinking if it was bbc connected it's likely a stsnd alone animation rather than a recovery.

We are jumping to a lot of conclusions. You're right there's no definitive proof about anything, but I would like to say a few words about your points.
A. Yeah, we have absolutely no idea, but it does look professionally made.
B. Apart from the scenes of Troughton talking (Episode 2) and the episode 5 cliffhanger, all of the animated footage is from the very end of Episode 4 and the very beginning of Episode 5 so while it is from multiple episodes it is for the most part in a condensed area.
C. It could be test footage, but I doubt that it's from a fan animation. It just looks too well done. I mean it's better than any animation the BBC has had made for an official release like The Invasion or The Ice Warriors.
D. Power may be the second least likely serial to be recovered, but we have over a quarter (If you count surviving footage) of the least likely serial to be recovered. Power is also a Dalek story and due to their popularity, if a collector was looking for prints, it would be an ideal purchase.
E. Considering the BBC's notoriously cheap way of treating the missing episodes *cough*Underwater Menace*cough* I find it hard to believe that they would undertake such an expensive project, even for a serial as popular as Power.

Considering the evidence I think this is most likely test footage that an animation company made (Maybe for a commission from Ian Levene? It wouldn't be the first time). However I am still curious as to why it was taken down. For now all we can do is sit, wait, and hope for the best. Just like we've been doing for forty years.

[Deleted]

Aug 22, 2016 2:32:00 GMT ianphillips said:

Aug 22, 2016 0:02:06 GMT George D said:

We are jumping to a, lot of conclusion.
First that it was BBC made.
It looks great but most of the scenes are from existing footage. Also from many episodes
It could be test footage, it could be from a fan animation,
And if it was bbc, because the amount of prints of power made are so small that it is one of the least likely to be recovered stories.
I'm thinking if it was bbc connected it's likely a stsnd alone animation rather than a recovery.

We are jumping to a lot of conclusions. You're right there's no definitive proof about anything, but I would like to say a few words about your points.
A. Yeah, we have absolutely no idea, but it does look professionally made.
B. Apart from the scenes of Troughton talking (Episode 2) and the episode 5 cliffhanger, all of the animated footage is from the very end of Episode 4 and the very beginning of Episode 5 so while it is from multiple episodes it is for the most part in a condensed area.
C. It could be test footage, but I doubt that it's from a fan animation. It just looks too well done. I mean it's better than any animation the BBC has had made for an official release like The Invasion or The Ice Warriors.
D. Power may be the second least likely serial to be recovered, but we have over a quarter (If you count surviving footage) of the least likely serial to be recovered. Power is also a Dalek story and due to their popularity, if a collector was looking for prints, it would be an ideal purchase.
E. Considering the BBC's notoriously cheap way of treating the missing episodes *cough*Underwater Menace*cough* I find it hard to believe that they would undertake such an expensive project, even for a serial as popular as Power.

Considering the evidence I think this is most likely test footage that an animation company made (Maybe for a commission from Ian Levene? It wouldn't be the first time). However I am still curious as to why it was taken down. For now all we can do is sit, wait, and hope for the best. Just like we've been doing for forty years.

For the last forty years... So Ian, you were aware that Doctor Who episodes were missing as far back as 1976? Where did you find out about them being missing that particular year? I learnt the awful truth in 1983, from the book Doctor Who A Celebration. As I've been waiting to watch Power ever since that day, I don't envy you the extra seven years you've had! Apparently, Fury From the Deep was still knocking about in the BBC archives in 1976. You could have snuck in there one night and helped yourself!

[George D]

The logical reason it was taken down was either the YouTube automated system on the audio or could have been requested by someone to protect copyright.
It was getting too much publicity with the BBC name connected to it

[Deleted]

Aug 22, 2016 3:02:03 GMT George D said:

The logical reason it was taken down was either the YouTube automated system on the audio or could have been requested by someone to protect copyright.
It was getting too much publicity with the BBC name connected to it

But then they'd all have to be taken down - even the Captain Pugwash-style animated ones.

[Owen Conway]

Aug 22, 2016 3:02:03 GMT George D said:

The logical reason it was taken down was either the YouTube automated system on the audio or could have been requested by someone to protect copyright.
It was getting too much publicity with the BBC name connected to it

I was watching as the video was removed. The original video was first privatised, then later deleted 'by the user'. YouTube had no involvement in the deletion of the video.

The uploader claims it was passed onto him by someone in the know saying it was from an official BBC project. The fact it was taken down indicates, as you suggested, that it was as the request of the person/people behind it.

[Gary Sayers]

Someone re-uploaded the video but this has now been removed by youtube after a copyright claim by BBC Worldwide.

[Owen Conway]

Aug 22, 2016 9:51:32 GMT Gary Sayers said:

Someone re-uploaded the video but this has now been removed by youtube after a copyright claim by BBC Worldwide.

Just tested this myself. Audio-visual content claimed. Blocked worldwide. Things are getting more and more interesting by the second..

[Richard Bignell]

Aug 22, 2016 10:01:39 GMT Owen Conway said:

Aug 22, 2016 9:51:32 GMT Gary Sayers said:

Someone re-uploaded the video but this has now been removed by youtube after a copyright claim by BBC Worldwide.

Just tested this myself. Audio-visual content claimed. Blocked worldwide. Things are getting more and more interesting by the second..

You might want to take a few moments to look at how YouTube's automated Content ID system actually works. There's no mysterious person at BBC Worldwide getting on the phone to YouTube demanding that things be taken down. It's all done automatically by bots that are pre-programmed with relevant BBC content that is recognised as it's uploaded. It's sometimes taken down instantaneously, sometimes it can take a while.

YouTube Content ID System

[Owen Conway]

Aug 22, 2016 10:07:49 GMT Richard Bignell said:

Aug 22, 2016 10:01:39 GMT Owen Conway said:

Just tested this myself. Audio-visual content claimed. Blocked worldwide. Things are getting more and more interesting by the second..

You might want to take a few moments to look at how YouTube's automated Content ID system actually works. There's no mysterious person at BBC Worldwide getting on the phone to YouTube demanding that things be taken down. It's all done automatically by bots that are pre-programmed with relevant BBC content that is recognised as it's uploaded. It's sometimes taken down instantaneously, sometimes it can take a while.

YouTube Content ID System

Yes, I know how their Content ID system works. The videos have remained online for the past 2 days or so, and have only just been removed. While your point about it taking a while is probably true, the keyword here is 'Audio-Visual'. The BBC cannot claim visual content they do not own. The visual content is an animation, not the original filmed story. I'd understand if it just said 'Audio content' but it doesn't. 

EDIT: It's just been pulled from Vimeo too.

[Richard Bignell]

But they can very obviously claim audio content, which is a valid enough reason for Content ID to take down any BBC owned material that registers when it's uploaded to the site. It doesn't have to have ANY copyrighted visual content.