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Post by Brad Phipps on Jan 15, 2006 3:07:59 GMT
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Post by Ash Stewart on Jan 15, 2006 8:31:51 GMT
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Post by Lance on Jan 15, 2006 10:53:59 GMT
No great losses I would have thought ? Missing because they were crap
(like Farewell Performance 1962~Robert Tronson) and the directors disownned
them
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Post by andrew martin on Jan 15, 2006 12:58:46 GMT
It's already on the list - some may remember that prior to all the 'Missing Believed Wiped' effort, there was a campaign by the BFI with accompanying book, 'Missing Believed Lost', about lost feature films - this was one of those mentioned. (There was a section at the back of the book about lost tv, which has rather overshadowed things since!)
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Post by Brad Phipps on Jan 16, 2006 21:07:13 GMT
Damn - just did some more research and found that two other Hitchcock films hit hard times:
- Number 13 (1922, his first actual film, never completed): Nothing survives
- Always Tell Your Wife (1923, uncredited): Only the first two reels survive
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Post by Steven Sigel on Jan 17, 2006 3:36:11 GMT
Damn - just did some more research and found that two other Hitchcock films hit hard times: - Number 13 (1922, his first actual film, never completed): Nothing survives - Always Tell Your Wife (1923, uncredited): Only the first two reels survive I've never heard of "Number 13" or "Always Tell Your Wife". They're not in any of the Filmographies I have .. Odd... He was the screenwriter for two early films "The Passionate Adventure" and "The Prudes Fall" -- no idea if those exist. His first two acknowledged films that he directed were "The Mountain Eagle" and "The Pleasure Garden". In the US, "Mountain Eagle" was released first, but "Pleasure Garden" was actually made first (not sure what the release order was in Europe). I don't think "Pleasure Garden" exists either unfortunately. After that, I think all of his films exist, but I've never been able to find a print of the following "Champagne", "When Boys Leave Home" or "Downhill". "The Manxman", "Easy Virtue", "The Lodger", and "The Farmers Wife" are all relatively easy to find.I've seen "The Ring" and the silent version of "Blackmail" for sale , but I've never had any luck in acquiring a print of either one. As for the sound films -- I've never seen "Elstree Calling" or "Waltzes From Vienna", but they must be around somewhere. |
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Post by Brad Phipps on Jan 17, 2006 6:14:36 GMT
^ Elstree Calling doesn't really count though; he only directed a few minutes of what was essentially a compilation effort (unless I'm confusing that with something else).
Number 13 and Always Tell Your Wife were news to me as well - The Pleasure Garden is considered his first film as it's the first one he completed.
Number 13 was never completed for some reason, and it seems strange abandoning a film part way through unless something major happened.
Always Tell Your Wife was co-directed by Hitchcock, but his part may have been minor hence no mention of it sooner.
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Post by Warren S on Jan 17, 2006 19:03:10 GMT
Damn - just did some more research and found that two other Hitchcock films hit hard times: - Number 13 (1922, his first actual film, never completed): Nothing survives - Always Tell Your Wife (1923, uncredited): Only the first two reels survive I've never heard of "Number 13" or "Always Tell Your Wife". They're not in any of the Filmographies I have .. Odd... He was the screenwriter for two early films "The Passionate Adventure" and "The Prudes Fall" -- no idea if those exist. His first two acknowledged films that he directed were "The Mountain Eagle" and "The Pleasure Garden". In the US, "Mountain Eagle" was released first, but "Pleasure Garden" was actually made first (not sure what the release order was in Europe). I don't think "Pleasure Garden" exists either unfortunately. After that, I think all of his films exist, but I've never been able to find a print of the following "Champagne", "When Boys Leave Home" or "Downhill". As for the sound films -- I've never seen "Elstree Calling" or "Waltzes From Vienna", but they must be around somewhere. The Pleasure Garden definitely still exist as do all of his other films except The Mountain Eagle. To help clear up confusion Dwnhill is the same film as When Boys Leave home just a different title, both that and Champagne are available in R2 land. Elstree Calling and Waltzes from Vienna hardly ever show up but both exist and he only directed 15 mins of Elstree anyway. The early two are difficult - Number 13 never got close to being finished in reality and he didn't direct much of Always Tell Your Wife anyway - he was asst director on it only. Hope that helps |
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Post by Steven Sigel on Jan 17, 2006 19:41:40 GMT
I've never heard of "Number 13" or "Always Tell Your Wife". They're not in any of the Filmographies I have .. Odd... He was the screenwriter for two early films "The Passionate Adventure" and "The Prudes Fall" -- no idea if those exist. His first two acknowledged films that he directed were "The Mountain Eagle" and "The Pleasure Garden". In the US, "Mountain Eagle" was released first, but "Pleasure Garden" was actually made first (not sure what the release order was in Europe). I don't think "Pleasure Garden" exists either unfortunately. After that, I think all of his films exist, but I've never been able to find a print of the following "Champagne", "When Boys Leave Home" or "Downhill". As for the sound films -- I've never seen "Elstree Calling" or "Waltzes From Vienna", but they must be around somewhere. The Pleasure Garden definitely still exist as do all of his other films except The Mountain Eagle. To help clear up confusion Dwnhill is the same film as When Boys Leave home just a different title, both that and Champagne are available in R2 land. Elstree Calling and Waltzes from Vienna hardly ever show up but both exist and he only directed 15 mins of Elstree anyway. The early two are difficult - Number 13 never got close to being finished in reality and he didn't direct much of Always Tell Your Wife anyway - he was asst director on it only. Hope that helps Thanks Warren -- I had head that "Downhill" and "When Boys Leave home" were actually the same film, but I couldn't verify that... Glad to hear that "The Pleasure Garden" still exists.. I've been trying to get 16mm film copies of every film Hitchcock made and I had written those first two off as missing... I'll have to add "Pleasure Garden" back to the list - although I think the likelyhood of finding a print is nearly nil. Are there decent DVDs of "Downhill" and "Champagne" available? Most of the early Hitchcock stuff on DVD looks awful. When I said they were nearly impossible to find - I meant on film -- I guess I should have been more specific... |
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Post by Brad Phipps on Jan 18, 2006 7:30:53 GMT
I think Champagne has been released on DVD, but I don't think it was restored.
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Post by Warren S on Jan 18, 2006 8:43:50 GMT
Thanks Warren -- I had head that "Downhill" and "When Boys Leave home" were actually the same film, but I couldn't verify that... Glad to hear that "The Pleasure Garden" still exists.. I've been trying to get 16mm film copies of every film Hitchcock made and I had written those first two off as missing... I'll have to add "Pleasure Garden" back to the list - although I think the likelyhood of finding a print is nearly nil. Are there decent DVDs of "Downhill" and "Champagne" available? Most of the early Hitchcock stuff on DVD looks awful. When I said they were nearly impossible to find - I meant on film -- I guess I should have been more specific... There are some pretty good prints floating about of these on DVD in R2 (as well as the silent Blackmail). The German box set "Hitchcock - The Early Years" www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00008XQI3/qid=1137573353/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/302-0469254-0396069Includes Downhill in a nice looking print, no soundtrack of any kind unfortunately though. Also available in Germany is this www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005UE71/qid=1137573454/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_11_1/302-0469254-0396069Which includes both the sound and silent versions of Blackmail in incredibly good quality. Both of the above have UK soundtracks on the sound films and subtitles can be turned off. Then in France there are the following 3 box sets available again including prints far better than anything available in the US on the various PD DVD's that have cropped up. Only problem with these is that the subtitles are player generated so you might struggle to get rid of the damn things (less of a problem with the silent films). www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0007V5WTQ/qid=1137573603/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_11_1/402-9892464-8534546www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0007V5WRI/qid=1137573630/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_11_2/402-9892464-8534546 (this is the one with Champagne on) www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0007DDRZU/qid=1137573671/sr=1-8/ref=sr_1_11_8/402-9892464-8534546I agree with the other poster that these have had little restoration, but we're unlikely to see better and at least the aspect ratios are pretty much spot on and they run at the right speed. In terms of finding actual 16mm prints I'm not surprised you've drawn a blank on the Pleasure Garden, I've never seen one anywhere, I certainly have kept an eye out for such things over the years. Germany is your best bet - that's where it seems to have had most distribution at the time - and indeed where it was made. Hope that helps. |
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Post by williamM on Jan 18, 2006 16:42:00 GMT
As I understand it Hitch hated his early films(especialy the Mountain Eagle) so not much chance of his estate having any copies.
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Post by Steven Sigel on Jan 18, 2006 19:20:57 GMT
Hi Warren --
Do you have a preference for any of those sets? I can't read German so it's hard to figure out which is best...
The films I need copies of are:
Downhill / Champagne / Silent Blackmail / Pleasure Garden
The others I have either on film or DVD (except Waltzes from Vienna, which doesn't seem to be anywhere)
Are the intertitles on the silent films in German? That might be a problem...
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Post by Brad Phipps on Jan 20, 2006 0:40:02 GMT
For some bizarre reason I was thinking to myself "I can't get this set, I won't be able to understand it".
Then I remembered they're silent films...
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Post by warren s on Jan 20, 2006 15:39:54 GMT
Hi Warren -- Do you have a preference for any of those sets? I can't read German so it's hard to figure out which is best... The films I need copies of are: Downhill / Champagne / Silent Blackmail / Pleasure Garden The others I have either on film or DVD (except Waltzes from Vienna, which doesn't seem to be anywhere) Are the intertitles on the silent films in German? That might be a problem... Intertitles for all the films mentioned here are original English with either French or German subtitles. Unfortunately to get the films you want you have to spread yourself around a bit! I would recommend the Blackmail DVD just because the print looks so good, you get both versions and the well known sound test clip with Hitch and Anny Ondra (or whatever her name is). The sound films all have UK soundtracks as standard. The German set is great because the German subtitles are optional and it includes a little documentary about his early films, but on the French sets they're player generated - so it's more of a pain to remove them (it's not too difficult to re-author the discs though). |
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