VT Wiping dates

[B Thomas]

Just a quick question:

Does anyone have any idea when the VT masters for "Ace of Wands" were wiped?

All information greatly appreciated

[Gary]

Don't know exactly but Seven Serpents must have been around for a while as it was repeated in the London region in 1973 I think.And also i'd think it would still have been existing in 1975 to use as a reference when they made the Shadows sequel with Mr Stabs.

[B Thomas]

Cheers for that. Yeah "Seven Serpents, Sulphur and Salt" seems the odd one out regarding the Series 1 & 2 episodes. This was the only serial from the show's first two years to ever get repeated.

It has been suggested by some that those repeated over 1973/74 (Serpents, "The Meddlers", Peacock Pie" and "Sisters Deadly") had their masters due to be wiped not long after this. However as the last four are still in existence it raises hope among some that "7 Serpents" may well still exist out there somewhere...

[Lance]

There is absolutely no reason why Thames had any wiping dates at all ! surely this a myth?
Apart from Ace of Wands (which was also entirely made in colour ) can anyone name a Thames drama series from day 1 that is not in the archives?

[David Buck]

Well there's Callan & Armchair theatre to name a couple - there's probably more if you scan the Kaleidoscope guides.

[Lee Bagnall]

Wasn't Callan initially an ABC production?

[B Thomas]

Lance said:

There is absolutely no reason why Thames had any wiping dates at all ! surely this a myth?
Apart from Ace of Wands (which was also entirely made in colour ) can anyone name a Thames drama series from day 1 that is not in the archives?

So... how did two entire seasons come to disappear, Lance? I agree that not all Thames' products fell foul of the VT wipers but some (esp. early 70s stuff) was routinely destroyed or had the mastertapes wiped and reused for recording later projects. It wasn't just B&W shows affected by mass wiping/junking...

[David Buck]

Yes, callan was initially an ABC production ; but half of the first Thames series is missing as well.

[Laurence Piper]

Plenty of Thames stuff missing from the first three years or so (1968-70). After that, their drama and comedy series become more comprehensive. Fortunately they didn't seem to produce that much drama early on (if they did, there would likely be episodes missing now). Apart from Callan and AT (which are pretty significant holes in themselves), there are some other early Thames single plays missing. Also there is most of Frontier, possibly Thames' first transmitted drama (which may have been made by ABC, although Kal lists it as being Thames).

The areas Thames are missing most stuff though are comedy (most of their run of Do Not Adjust Your Set, some of Life With Cooper and many early sitcoms like A Present For Dickie, series 1 of Dear Mother Love Albert, the pilot of Spring And Autumn etc etc) and children's drama (all of Sexton Blake, The Queen Street Gang and much of Ace Of Wands). Plus huge holes in David Frost's shows, Magpie and The Today Programme.

[Nosmo King]

Laurence said:

Plus huge holes in David Frost's shows, Magpie and The Today Programme.

Frost's shows were for LWT.

"Today" and "Magpie" aren't junkings .. they went out live and were not recorded .. as is often standard to this day as regards local news programmes (filmed items or special editions are often kept/recorded).

Indeed many live kids magazines shows were not recorded either ("Blue Peter" was an exception to general policy right upto the early 1980s) .. "Swap Shop" in it's early days ditto the early "TISWAS" and all of "Saturday Banana" (78) except one recorded on U-matic for a "keepsake"

[john g]

The Mind of MR J G Reader exists entirely despite being mostly in B/W.
I heard the Callan tapes were discarded because they were damaged , (the studio safety copy exists to one of the missing ones ) .

Lawrence's list is lamentable but stuff like Magpie/Frost was probably transimmted live in the first place ?

Allegedly Verity Lambert had a spring clean and discarded what she regarded as ' Tat ' B/W material when she was there in the 1970s .
Before you condemn her , you have to think of the 1970s mindset . Colour tv licences were very expensive compared to B/W , thus people did not like their screens
filled up with B/W programmes.The BFI turned its nose up at TV at that time was reluctant to accept anything.

So this may explain there was no deliberate wiping policy and why the B/W material has gone ... and just
maybe there is still hope for colour material like AOW
and Sexton Blake ?

[PaulW]

I remember reading somewhere that 'Ace of Wands' was sold to some foreign countries. Has this been looked in to? I doubt Thames or the company now holding the rights to the programme would have put as much - if any - effort in to locating them as the BBC has.

[Ian Beard]

All of the CALLANs made by THAMES exist - those are the colour episodes. The two series of b/w shows were both made by ABC, although the second run was transmitted under the THAMES banner in 1969.

Any "wiping dates" are a misnomer anyway - signed off paperwork wouldn't mean much, as any tapes given the good ahead for wiping could have lingered around in storage for ages before actually being wiped.

[Ian Beard]

My bad - please ignore the first part of the above post.

[Laurence Piper]

Nosmo said:

Frost's shows were for LWT.
"Today" and "Magpie" aren't junkings .. they went out live and were not recorded .. as is often standard to this day as regards local news programmes (filmed items or special editions are often kept/recorded).
;

Yes, the Frosts were LWT. My mistake. Stuff that went out live though I effectively consider as junked material as they didn't bother to keep copies by recording off-air (at least in the era when a means of recording existed - certainly in the late 60/ early '70s).