|
Post by johnpater on Nov 12, 2015 10:03:57 GMT
From what I have read elsewhere, it seems the frame rate does change between videos on the Blu-ray. But not to the correct rates! They had the facility to do that but missed the chance. Can you say, Phil, if any of the videotaped clips on the set still preserve the interlaced look or have all of them been filmised to fit in with the filmed material? There is a function on some televisions (I am not sure if all) to give a smoother look and it does give back almost a video look (I saw it on a friend of mine's television while watching an episode of The Prisoner, which was very strange). Here is a link to an article which gives an early analysis of the set technically, including frame rates. wogew.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/analysing-1-and-1.html?m=1
|
|
|
Post by ashleywood on Nov 12, 2015 11:18:24 GMT
Can someone explain to me WTF Apple/Giles have done to Please Please Me ? I understand the outro of Eight Days A Week is the wrong edit piece, edited on out of time. Do they actually listen to these/watch them before they put them out or just look at the waveform in an editing programme to check everything is sufficiently loudified ? Could they not remove "the hair" ? To be honest I don't think the general public give a rat's ass about such things but a lot of fans are ending up in A and E after smacking their heads against a wall. Reminds me of the remixed Eleanor Rigby with the out of sync backing and the failure to deal with the opening verse line properly. I just don't understand what they're thinking and why no-one in the pre-release has said anything - "Giles there's something wrong with Please Please Me, it's pitched up too much, sounds completely wrong what happened.Fix it." or am I supposed to shut up and stop whining about Apple finally doing something. They should let some experts do this job properly. Too late now. Ba locks. I'm going back to my Bob Dylan enormo box.
|
|
|
Post by johnpater on Nov 12, 2015 11:47:00 GMT
There are loads of issues on this release. I am a lifelong Beatles fan but one that has given up on Apple completely. They tamper with and unnecessarily mess up everything they bring out. Many other groups of lesser stature than The Beatles have been served well by CD and DVD / Blu-ray and their fans have been given what they've been craving. It is possible to satisfy both general audience and the hardcore. Here's one example of a company going the extra mile to get everything right. Looks like a nice package and the people behind it are the sort of people Apple should be utilising on their reissues and restorations. www.monkeesconcerts.com/blog/category/33-13-revolutions-per-monkee
|
|
|
Post by ashleywood on Nov 12, 2015 12:03:39 GMT
I think that's what my problem with Apple and their team is. OK we could argue about whether this take or that take is worthy of release, but they make a complete pigs ear on so many needless counts when they do do something which should be simple. Using the Sessions mixes on Anthology was a desperately poor decision. The Monkees have been far better served - I am a massive Monkees fan (except for Davy) but they are not anywhere near the same league as The Beatles. For the most part, Andrew Sandoval and his team have done a brilliant job on The Monkees catalogue and continue to pursue excellence, seek out new "lost" tapes etc.. If I hadn't just sold my family to buy the new Bob box I'd have ordered the new Monkees blu-rays. Meanwhile the silence from ABKCO on a proper Rolling Stones anthology is deafening. I do not think Giles Martin is doing a good job either. Out of sync issues when combining first gen. multitracks is pretty much unforgivable. I am convinced many producers/engineers just look at the waveforms instead of using their ears. I wonder whether Paul McCharmley actually listened to such things - he has such a musical ear you'd think he'd be on the blower straight away. "dooh, ok awlright Giles, dooh, my vocal's out of time with the backing on Eleanor Rigby, dooh, which I think..."
|
|
|
Post by timmunton on Nov 12, 2015 13:53:46 GMT
Shame Apple didn't just use restored mono up until the last couple of ( Beatles ) years; more true to the period.
Interesting to hear that the 'smooth'-look function on TV's may now actually have a purpose! I've always seen that function as essentially an abomination. But with this lack of video look it may come in handy! - Thanks for that info Phil.
If anyone has the time could they please list which tracks were originally filmed on video tape? ( would make it easier when watching; as to when to turn on the 'smooth'-look TV function ).
I've just ordered the 3-disc ( 1 CD + 2 DVDs ) DVD version. I'm assuming that these will lack the video look ( on those tracks where it should be there ) just the same as on the Blu-ray edition ( ? )
|
|
|
Post by ashleywood on Nov 12, 2015 14:09:34 GMT
|
|
|
Post by markg on Nov 12, 2015 19:55:35 GMT
It bugged me that "Magical Mystery Tour" substituted the original soundtrack for the Remastered Album versions.
It also bugged me that the end credits of Help" were modified and re-ordered, and now George's adlib of "I need you George Harrison" is way off from when it used to appear on the screen and now makes no sense.
|
|
|
Post by johnpater on Nov 13, 2015 8:08:53 GMT
These are the sorts of things Apple do all the time. Because The Beatles catalogue is such an important one, a lot more care should be taken to ensure that it is respectfully presented. They really need a team of dedicated people working on the material along the lines of the Doctor Who restoration group. That way all the clumsy hiccups and retrospective amendments would not occur. The Beatles are a British heritage too, even though everything Apple do is very annoyingly geared towards US consumption. We don't need remastering of 405 and 625 line material in NTSC thanks very much (the filmising issue not withstanding).
|
|
|
Post by Chris Barratt on Nov 13, 2015 18:59:32 GMT
Sounds like I made the right decision in buying '1+' on DVD - very pleased with it. I am buying a (relatively pricey) BluRay dvd recorder soon, but obviously both formats work on that and being, by and large, a viewer of archive stuff will it make that much difference?
|
|
|
Post by nicadare on Nov 13, 2015 22:40:54 GMT
The DVD which I am assuming is NTSC 720x480 at 29.9fps will be poor quality because most of the footage is sourced from PAL 720x576 at 25fps meaning motion blur is inevitable. The 35mm film with a frame rate of 23.976 will also be encoded to NTSC which will degrade the quality vastly. On the bluray version only the footage sourced from 35mm film is worthy of viewing, all the 29.9 video is a right off having been destroyed by unnecessary encoding with some horrendous motion blur. Added to this catalogue of calamity is the unbelievable fact the 35mm promo for Paperback Writer which is equivalent to 4K has also been encoded to 29.9 fps, complete madness. I returned my bluray discs to Amazon based on the fact it's American format NTSC which isn't stated on the cover, the fact that it's region free is irrelevant. I ripped the disc to my hard drive before sending it back. The personnel at Apple have a reputation for incompetence, from what I have seen of these Beatles discs it's a reputation well founded.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 23:02:39 GMT
Don't be put off by the constant moaning of a few posters here. I agree to a point that there are some issues with this collection but it's still well worth purchasing. 'Paperback Writer' does actually look fantastic! It clearly states on the back it is ALL region which is a pretty good indication it is NTSC. If you were so disappointed nicadare why did you bother ripping the disc to your hard drive before sending it back?
|
|
|
Post by Dave Woods on Nov 14, 2015 0:34:18 GMT
If the DVD is in NTSC format, it should have all the same frame rate issues, plus some more since presumably every clip is 30 fps.
I've got the blu-rays. Yes, there are a few moments where fast panning or zooming - or head wobbling - doesn't look perfect. But the colour films - Paperback Writer, Rain, Strawberry Fields, Penny Lane - look amazing to my eyes. I've never really been much bothered by "filmising" either - the Twickenham clips mostly look good to me, and certainly better than the copies I've seen before.
I don't know why 30 fps is the baseline for the discs. The theory that things are geared for the US makes sense in terms of NTSC DVDs, but HD Blu-rays running at 30 fps are not NTSC and they're not really better suited to the US than the UK.
Presumably the real masters of these restored clips are at 4K? It would be interesting to know what frame rates those are at.
That the Twickenham stuff is at 24 fps is puzzling too. But I've always found these clips puzzling: every copy I've seen of Help! has always seemed too fast, like it was recorded at 24 fps and sped up to 25. I've just checked and it isn't that fast, but it is significantly faster than it should be. Maybe the studio playback was just from a dodgy deck. The blu-ray version sounds much closer to the correct speed. Maybe that was the motivation?
My main complaint with the set is actually that the CD is a disappointment: the remixes aren't as good as the Yellow Submarine ones to these ears and I'm hearing a lot of distortion. But the audio mostly sounds good on the videos. I should point out that my ears and indeed eyes are only amateurs.
|
|
|
Post by johnpater on Nov 14, 2015 0:37:31 GMT
The point here though is that a lot of this material is sourced from UK tape formats in the first place (405 / 625 / PAL, with only a few clips in native NTSC to start with) so therefore why does footage of a UK band like The Beatles have to be transferred and mastered to NTSC, which is an inferior technical standard? There is no reason for it. Reading various music forums online though, these sets have been (rightly, in my opinion) criticised for what has been done to this material. So it's more than just a few posters making a lot out of nothing. If we all complained to Apple, they might have to re-think their way of doing things.
|
|
|
Post by nicadare on Nov 14, 2015 9:52:46 GMT
If you were so disappointed nicadare why did you bother ripping the disc to your hard drive before sending it back? Obviously to acquire the 35mm footage which is at it's proper frame rate of 23.976fps. Beatles 1 Love Me Do (1080i, 29.970 fps) From Me to You (1080i, 29.970 fps) She Loves You (1080i, 29.970 fps) I Want to Hold Your Hand (1080i, 29.970 fps) Can't Buy Me Love (1080i, 29.970 fps) A Hard Day's Night (1080i, 29.970 fps) I Feel Fine (1080p, 23.976 fps) Eight Days a Week (1080p, 23.976 fps) Ticket to Ride (1080p, 23.976 fps) Help! (1080p, 23.976 fps) Yesterday* (1080i, 29.970 fps) Day Tripper (1080i, 29.970 fps) We Can Work It Out (1080p, 23.976 fps) Paperback Writer (1080i, 29.970 fps) Yellow Submarine (1080p, 23.976 fps) Eleanor Rigby (1080p, 23.976 fps) Penny Lane (1080p, 23.976 fps) All You Need Is Love (1080i, 29.970 fps) Hello, Goodbye (1080i, 29.970 fps) Lady Madonna (1080p, 23.976 fps) Hey Jude (1080i, 29.970 fps) Get Back (1080p, 23.976 fps) The Ballad of John and Yoko (1080i, 29.970 fps) Something (1080p, 23.976 fps) Come Together (1080i, 29.970 fps) Let It Be (1080p, 23.976 fps) The Long and Winding Road (1080p, 23.976 fps)Beatles 1+ Twist and Shout (1080i, 29.970 fps) Baby It's You (1080i, 29.970 fps) Words of Love (1080i, 29.970 fps) Please, Please Me* (1080i, 29.970 fps) I Feel Fine (1080p, 23.976 fps) Day Tripper (1080i, 29.970 fps) Day Tripper (3rd version) (1080p, 23.976 fps) We Can Work It Out (1080p, 23.976 fps) Paperback Writer (1080i, 29.970 fps) Rain (1080i, 29.970 fps) Rain (alternate) (1080i, 29.970 fps) Strawberry Fields Forever (1080p, 23.976 fps) Within You Without You/Tomorrow Never Knows (1080i, 29.970 fps) A Day in the Life (1080p, 23.976 fps) Hello, Goodbye (1080i, 29.970 fps) Hello, Goodbye (alternate) (1080i, 23.976 fps) Hey Bulldog (1080i, 29.970 fps) Hey Jude (1080i, 29.970 fps) Revolution (1080i, 29.970 fps) Get Back (1080i, 29.970 fps) Don't Let Me Down (1080i, 29.970 fps) Free as a Bird (1080i, 29.970 fps) Real Love (1080i, 29.970 fps) * Ed Sullivan Show (NTSC Sourced) As Wings sung in 1973 "When you got a job to do you got to do it well", Apple didn't heed the advise.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2015 9:54:17 GMT
Mike Morton says: "Don't be put off by the constant moaning of a few posters here."
With the greatest respect, Mike, if you think we're moaning about nothing, I can only assume you are not very observant! (Sorry, no rudeness intended!) There are many many technical issues with these Beatles discs - and when one considers the hype surrounding this release, it beggars belief that Apple have allowed such amateurish preparation of this precious film and video material.
Just because George Martin was a first-rate producer, it doesn't naturally follow that Giles Martin is as well.
Colin.
|
|