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Post by Paul Vanezis on Jul 5, 2015 9:40:28 GMT
It is entirely correct that the physical film is the property of the holder and that he can sell it on, but if he makes copies for third parties, or even himself, he would be in breach and may be liable to forfeit the film (although that would take an order from a court). No, no, you misunderstand. I mean make a copy which he then gives back to the copyright holder. Or I probably SHOULD have said loan the film to the copyright holder so they can make a copy. I'm not suggesting keeping a copy, or passing the copy on to a third party. I'm suggesting the following sequence: 1) Kaleidoscope buys a missing episode on eBay. 2) loan it to the BBC (or whoever) 3) The BBC makes a copy. 4) The BBC returns the film. 5) Kaleidoscope sells the film on the collectors market, getting back most of the original expense. Yes. That is allowed and in fact has happened with Doctor Who (The Lion). Paul
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Jul 5, 2015 9:51:24 GMT
OK. Now something has happened which does at least bring some happy closure to this sorry state of affairs. I've just taken a call from someone who used to work at the BBC. Fifteen years ago he transferred an episode of 'Softly, Softly' to digi-beta which was from a collector. He still has the tape and it is the episode 'Recovery'. The tape will be properly catalogued and in the BBC archive later this week and it's only an oversight that it hasn't already happened.
I think this highlights several points. Firstly, this material doesn't just magic itself out of thin air. It was offered for sale 15 years ago for £50 and nobody purchased it because it was way over priced then. Any film that turns up now could well have been transferred previously. When people try and profit from such things, stuff like this can happen and bite them on the arse.
Of course, I'm sure that the BBC would love to get the original film recording back, but the digi-beta was made fifteen years ago, before the film changed hands several times and before it was slapped on projectors of various sorts, so in all likelihood it is a superior copy. Nevertheless, it is safe.
Regards,
Paul
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Post by Vaughan Stanger on Jul 5, 2015 11:04:48 GMT
It would be lovely (and fitting) if the BFI could show 'Recovered' at the next Missing Believed Wiped event.
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Jul 5, 2015 11:07:34 GMT
It would be lovely (and fitting) if the BFI could show 'Recovered' at the next Missing Believed Wiped event. Yes. I'll send an email to Dick Fiddy. The BBC will be able to supply a copy. P
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Post by John Wall on Jul 5, 2015 11:16:19 GMT
Looks like someone wasted £770........
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Jul 5, 2015 11:28:00 GMT
Looks like someone wasted £770........ I would like to think that anyone prepared to pay that sort of money is prepared to pay it because they really do want to own the film. The person that has bought it has proved he bought it not for the pleasure in viewing it, or the dubious glory of returning it to the BBC, but to profit from his brief ownership. Yes, it has backfired on him on this occasion. Except he may now take pleasure in owning it for a bit longer. Or he may wish to cut his losses and relist it at a realistic price which reflects what it is. Paul
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Post by Pete Morris on Jul 5, 2015 12:09:50 GMT
Maybe someone3 could officially contact eBay about the listing. Now that a second copy has been found, the fellow should not be allowed to advertise it as the only surviving copy.
Paul, I presume you've asked your contact what other shows he may have duplicated?
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Jul 5, 2015 12:47:14 GMT
Maybe someone3 could officially contact eBay about the listing. Now that a second copy has been found, the fellow should not be allowed to advertise it as the only surviving copy. Paul, I presume you've asked your contact what other shows he may have duplicated? Hi Pete, The circumstances by which my contact borrowed the film were not usual. He doesn't have a secret stash of film transfers. Until the tape goes into the BBC system though, it's still technically a missing episode and can be advertised as such. I will though email him directly once I know that the tape is in the system, as I have sold films to the same guy before. Paul
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Post by John Green on Jul 5, 2015 14:27:41 GMT
OK. Now something has happened which does at least bring some happy closure to this sorry state of affairs. I've just taken a call from someone who used to work at the BBC. Fifteen years ago he transferred an episode of 'Softly, Softly' to digi-beta which was from a collector. He still has the tape and it is the episode 'Recovery'. The tape will be properly catalogued and in the BBC archive later this week and it's only an oversight that it hasn't already happened. I think this highlights several points. Firstly, this material doesn't just magic itself out of thin air. It was offered for sale 15 years ago for £50 and nobody purchased it because it was way over priced then. Any film that turns up now could well have been transferred previously. When people try and profit from such things, stuff like this can happen and bite them on the arse. Of course, I'm sure that the BBC would love to get the original film recording back, but the digi-beta was made fifteen years ago, before the film changed hands several times and before it was slapped on projectors of various sorts, so in all likelihood it is a superior copy. Nevertheless, it is safe. Regards, Paul Very nice.Was I surprised at the title of the thread.Cor.Talk about good news/bad news! Rollicking roller-coasters.Well done to everybody-and there seem to be lots of them-involved.
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Post by John Green on Jul 5, 2015 14:41:06 GMT
Overheard at the next Missing Believed Wiped event:
"I know a recovery's on first.I'm asking you what show is on.What's the point of telling me they're showing a recovery?What recovery?What's the flaming thing called?". Hours of fun could ensue.Unless,of course,Who's on first...
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Post by richardwoods on Jul 5, 2015 15:03:27 GMT
Great news!
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Post by John Green on Jul 5, 2015 16:47:19 GMT
Looks like someone wasted £770........ With postage it came to £788,and was sold as "no returns".
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Post by John Wall on Jul 5, 2015 17:29:57 GMT
Looks like someone wasted £770........ With postage it came to £788,and was sold as "no returns". Oh dear, how sad, never mind.....
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Post by Stephen Neve on Jul 5, 2015 19:11:40 GMT
No, no, you misunderstand. I mean make a copy which he then gives back to the copyright holder. Or I probably SHOULD have said loan the film to the copyright holder so they can make a copy. I'm not suggesting keeping a copy, or passing the copy on to a third party. I'm suggesting the following sequence: 1) Kaleidoscope buys a missing episode on eBay. 2) loan it to the BBC (or whoever) 3) The BBC makes a copy. 4) The BBC returns the film. 5) Kaleidoscope sells the film on the collectors market, getting back most of the original expense. Yes. That is allowed and in fact has happened with Doctor Who (The Lion). Paul The BBC did try and score a spetacular own goal though by threatening to sue Bruce Grenville if he sold the Lion film on.
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Post by George D on Jul 6, 2015 0:20:55 GMT
I'm surprised that our Web page lists no softly softly existing as I have heard of episodes floating around.
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