Upstairs,Downstairs DVD;missing LWT endcaps.

[Michael the first]

Can someone out there provide me with enlightenment please?
Having recently purchased the Network DVDs of Dame Edna and Upstairs,Downstairs I have discovered that the first Dame Edna show has a modern LWT Productions logo where the old LWT river endcap should be.
On the Up/Down DVDs all the eps bar the first one have the same modern LWT Production logo followed by the LWT logo with the words:"An LWT program for ITV".
Can anyone explain who is responsable for having the old LWT river endeacp taken off and replaced with something I don't like the look of?
Network has taken the trouble to have these shows remastered to bring them back to their origanal glory,so why could they not leave the LWT river ident on at the end;was this done by LWT themselves,or where these tapes from overseas sales copies?
I would add however the LWT river frontcaps are present on all eps.
At the same time Two's Company seris 1 was released,another LWT show.
These are all complete with LWT front and endcaps,the river ident.
Can anyone shed any light on the curious case of the missing LWT endcaps?
Many thanks in advance for any infomation recieved.

[Nosmo King]

I believe the original end caps (for the most part) for Upstairs Downstairs are only present on the original 2" quads .. now resident at the NFTVA.

Network accessed only those "remasters" that were in situ at LWT/Granada .. these have the 1990s end caps on them .. and are probably also the source of all the sales copies that have turned up on the satellite channels in the last few years (UK Gold/UK Drama/Hallmark/Granada Plus etc.).

... it is probably the reason the picture quality (despite the mention of restoration on the DVDs) is not always the best. The "best" could only have been achieve by accessing the originals - paying the BFI the necessary retrieval fees - and then futher spending money on restoration work on the quads .. obviously not considered cost effective by Network considering that the series had already been out on DVD from VCI/Cinema Club

[Nosmo King]

Just to add ... regarding other LWT shows that DO have the original end caps .. like "Two's Company"

.. the reason for this is probably that they have not been marketed so much in the last few years and so have not had "updated" material replacing the originals .. like the 1990s cards.

UpDown in this respect is probably a victim of it's continued exploit over the years .. each new "sale" getting a "makeover" .... whilst others sat in the vaults/shelve untouched for decades!

[john g]

The LWT archive were digitized in 1991/92, with the old material sent to the TV black hole (NFTVA)


So just to add to Nosmos, on a highly marketable show like UP/down to have "a colour production" would date it considerably so this maybe why the end caps were removed.

[Simon Winters]

In the same way, the colour episodes of The Avengers which are out on dvd do not use the original ITV prints with ABC triangle idents, which must also be at the BFI.

This lack of attention to detail really annoys me.

[Paul Reid]

Simon said:

In the same way, the colour episodes of The Avengers which are out on dvd do not use the original ITV prints with ABC triangle idents, which must also be at the BFI.
This lack of attention to detail really annoys me.

Ecomomics ... the DVD licencee has to work out what "extra" income will be garnered by getting hold of "inaccessible" masters compared with what is more easily attained ... and chiefly the extra time, effort and cost in doing so.

For some titles it may be worth the expense, but mostly the odds are stacked against .. in the case where the market is small and there has already been product previously it is not surprising that the extra mile isn't taken.

Different for the fans .. it's not their financial viability that is on the line for low margin, low volume archive TV titles ... one solution .. would we pay say £25 for a non restored set without ident/ad-caps or a large premium say "four" times the amount for the extra staff, manhours and financial cost to achieve the best results? ... or indeed whatever the extra cost would be?

[Deleted]

I think some UD TX copies with the original endcap with the LWT tricolour have been sold abroad.

ITV3's TX copy of the 1984 Dame Edna special had 90s endcaps too.

Plus recent screenings of LWT shows made from 1986 to 1989, i.e. the "blinds" era, do not feature the "proper" endcap of that time, i.e. the LWT logo with a copyright legend below it. These have the "LWT production for ITV" too.

[Deleted]

Does the NFTVA have any idea for how much longer 2" quads will be playable? I assume the equipment is disappearing fast? After which time anything that hasn't been transferred onto a new format (such as original titles) will be lost.

[yorkshire]

This sort of thing really gets under my skin. Why replace the original endcaps? What's the point? Your average Joe Public isn't going to care anymore about who made the programme so they'll switch to another channel as soon as the closing credits start.

[Koen Br]

How much of the original UpDown endcaps are present on the DVD release of series 2? I've been watching this on ITV3 for the last couple of weeks, and almost all series 2 episodes have the original endcaps (surprise, surprise!).

I don't know about series 1, I didn't watch that on ITV3 as I had already seen it on dvd.

[Steve Bennett]

rgsuk said:

Does the NFTVA have any idea for how much longer 2" quads will be playable? I assume the equipment is disappearing fast?

Don't worry. There are dozens of quad VTRs still around and in full working order. A friend who works with quad all over the country estimated that there are enough machines and spare parts to ensure that we'll be able to play back quad tapes for at least the next 20 years or so, and quite probably much longer. Whether the tapes will survive that long is another matter!