Star trek rpeat runs query

[johnstewart]

CBS action are repeating the classic Star Trek series. I've noticed the enterprise looks a grey colour rather than blue in space shots. The publicity says they've been digitally restored, but I'm suspicious they have replaced some model shots with new CGI shots; tampering with the footage. I seem to recall the first one being run on BBC at least in the 1970 runs as being RETURN OF THE ARCHONS. The one in an old western village where the village clock keeps stopping. It's a pity if they have mucked it about as it's a chance to get it in broadcast context which you can't on DVDs.

[Peter Stirling]

I think the original blue was due to bleed in the colour separation overlay shots- they used blue backgrounds in those days. If they have the original footage of the models they can now mix them electronically and more successfully with today's technology without resorting to CGI.

[johnstewart]

Thanks Peter. I'm still unsure if some of the space effect series have been replaced though. Some of the imagery originally model work seems to have an illustration look like CGI and some effects look remarkably modern for the series' vintage.

[George D]

I saw the original enterprise at the Smithsonian and Its gray
Perhaps lighting made it look a different color.
That being said, when they came out with the blue rays they went back to the original 35mm and also redid much of the cgi. Yet trying to be respectful to the original.
I would assume that they are showing the restored version based on your concerns.

[Alan Jeffries]

The Blu-ray of the original Trek allow you to watch either the original or the restored and updated versions. I see nothing wrong with adding special effects as they have treated the material with respect and have not re-edited them. The fact that both versions are available satisfies this fan.

Alan

[Patrick Coles]

MUCH of the effects & all of the space scenes have been replaced / updated

One of my fav episodes is 'The Doomsday Machine' - the weapon itself has been replaced, the wrecked USS Constellation has been replaced (the original was just a bit battered with a nascelle missing - this new one has considerable damage, the same nascelle is missing and it 'wavers about' unsteadily as it moves (which ties in with Capt Kirk being thrown about in the original footage as Scotty gets the devastated hulk moving)

- The Enterprise futile attack on the weapon is much more impressive as the 'new' Enterprise flies along the length of the vast device, and we get far more of a sense of distance involved with Enterprise battling the device while the Constellation hulk is left far behind etc...

the shuttle craft take off looks better too (the original is clearly superimposed on as the shuttle craft moves through space with the same footage of take off that was used in every shuttle craft launch)

a good scene of Enterprise towing the unsteady 'wavering' Constellation by tractor beams is added too, so in this case I'm pleased with the updates

in 'Obsession' the alien creature thing is a better 'cloud' effect than the original too, so in the main all the updates seem fine to me and never spoil the original acting which is left intact.

The planets all look far better now too - in 'The Menagerie' they perfectly match them up between original 1964 pilot footage and later 1966 footage too so now Enterprise 13 years back flies up to the identical blue Talos IV as the Enterprise in Kirk's present time does (in the original 'Menagerie' the 1964 pilot Talos IV is a notably different 'cloudy pinkish' colour to the later 1966 blue planet footage !)

so I'm quite happy with the updates, but also have the original versions too for  viewing of how the show was originally made back in the sixties.

[RWels]

Yes, but did Kirk shoot first?

[Nicholas Fitzpatrick]

In the version shown here in Canada on Space, not only was most of the space shots redone, but it was broadcast in 16:9.

And to tell the truth, I thought it looked great!

[johnstewart]

Dec 5, 2014 10:18:47 GMT Patrick Coles said:

MUCH of the effects & all of the space scenes have been replaced / updated

One of my fav episodes is 'The Doomsday Machine' - the weapon itself has been replaced, the wrecked USS Constellation has been replaced (the original was just a bit battered with a nascelle missing - this new one has considerable damage, the same nascelle is missing and it 'wavers about' unsteadily as it moves (which ties in with Capt Kirk being thrown about in the original footage as Scotty gets the devastated hulk moving)

- The Enterprise futile attack on the weapon is much more impressive as the 'new' Enterprise flies along the length of the vast device, and we get far more of a sense of distance involved with Enterprise battling the device while the Constellation hulk is left far behind etc...

the shuttle craft take off looks better too (the original is clearly superimposed on as the shuttle craft moves through space with the same footage of take off that was used in every shuttle craft launch)

a good scene of Enterprise towing the unsteady 'wavering' Constellation by tractor beams is added too, so in this case I'm pleased with the updates

in 'Obsession' the alien creature thing is a better 'cloud' effect than the original too, so in the main all the updates seem fine to me and never spoil the original acting which is left intact.

The planets all look far better now too - in 'The Menagerie' they perfectly match them up between original 1964 pilot footage and later 1966 footage too so now Enterprise 13 years back flies up to the identical blue Talos IV as the Enterprise in Kirk's present time does (in the original 'Menagerie' the 1964 pilot Talos IV is a notably different 'cloudy pinkish' colour to the later 1966 blue planet footage !)

so I'm quite happy with the updates, but also have the original versions too for  viewing of how the show was originally made back in the sixties.

Thanks - For me, I would have liked to have some examples of the original episodes with no updated segments as seen in broadcast just as an example. guess it might be good idea to find someone who taped the 1990s BBC showings with links. It's just from a historical perspective of preserving I'm interested in that aspect. Of course you don't get the programme links on a DVD. On my original points I recall 'the menagerie' being shown early on BBC 1 along with the episode with the Richard keil type tall alien. Also the episode with the flying pancakes, monster that looks like ravioli and 'Charlie X'.

[Patrick Coles]

yeah - I think they have left the original ST show version stills for the closing credits & theme tune just as they were, so some idea of how the show looked in the sixties can be gleaned from those

That 'Tall alien' in 'The Cage' / 'Menagerie' was actually a woman ! - actress Meg Wyllie filmed cleverly to look taller, with a voice dubbed on , Malachi Throne's originally (who played Commadore Mendez in the 'new' 'Menagerie' footage) thus the alien voice was 're-dubbed' so that the 'Keeper' Talosian can mentally address Capt. Kirk by name right at the end...

Another thing updated / improved in 'The Doomsday Machine' is the shattered bits of planets floating by, one even bashes into one of the starships (Constellation I think) & breaks into smaller fragments at the start, giving much more impression of a devastated planetary system having been 'chewed up' by the weapon....in the original it's just a few chunks moving by but frozen as seen on the viewing screen etc

the 'new' weapon has a glowing fiery furnace-like core far more like a 'living device'where as the original had just a 'gleaming core' and when USS Constellation explodes inside the weapon it's more of a nuclear explosion effect (the original just seems to 'spew out' a light beam !)

one thing I DID actually  think was a bit better originally tho' was after that the original weapon 'shimmers' and is left a dead shattered hulk hanging stationary in space...which I felt was more impressive than the 'fall away' the new version does just now 'dead' not notably 'shattered' (just my opinion here but the original effect there looked even better to me !)

it's really a superb episode - with no 'padding' at all - that works on so many levels, great guest star in William Windom, great dramatic scenes on Enterprise bridge for Spock seizing back command of Enterprise 'by the book' and on Kirk's direct order 'on his personal authority as Commander...' etc, from the shell shocked obsessed Commadore Decker after the battle with the weapon, Kirk's adventure with Scotty on the Constellation getting a 'dead' ship to come back to life to 'kill it's killer'...

and the poignant thought re a 'Doomsday weapon' from somebody's war countless years ago being a modern day menace (like old WW2 sea mines etc, that go on killing...)

...and our very own Doomsday weapon, something like the 'old H Bomb' - a detonating Starship creating a megatons explosion - being used to destroy such a killing machine device

Had ST not already have got two Hugo awards I feel sure this episode would have won the award it was nominated for...

[richardwoods]

Dec 7, 2014 12:47:53 GMT Patrick Coles said:

yeah - I think they have left the original ST show version stills for the closing credits & theme tune just as they were, so some idea of how the show looked in the sixties can be gleaned from those

That 'Tall alien' in 'The Cage' / 'Menagerie' was actually a woman ! - actress Meg Wyllie filmed cleverly to look taller, with a voice dubbed on , Malachi Throne's originally (who played Commadore Mendez in the 'new' 'Menagerie' footage) thus the alien voice was 're-dubbed' so that the 'Keeper' Talosian can mentally address Capt. Kirk by name right at the end...

Another thing updated / improved in 'The Doomsday Machine' is the shattered bits of planets floating by, one even bashes into one of the starships (Constellation I think) & breaks into smaller fragments at the start, giving much more impression of a devastated planetary system having been 'chewed up' by the weapon....in the original it's just a few chunks moving by but frozen as seen on the viewing screen etc

the 'new' weapon has a glowing fiery furnace-like core far more like a 'living device'where as the original had just a 'gleaming core' and when USS Constellation explodes inside the weapon it's more of a nuclear explosion effect (the original just seems to 'spew out' a light beam !)

one thing I DID actually  think was a bit better originally tho' was after that the original weapon 'shimmers' and is left a dead shattered hulk hanging stationery in space...which I felt was more impressive than the 'fall away' the new version does just now 'dead' not notably 'shattered' (just my opinion here but the original effect there looked even better to me !)

it's still a superb episode that works on so many levels, great guest star in William Windom, great dramatic scenes on Enterprise bridge for Spock seizing back command of Enterprize from the shell shocked obsessed Commadore Decker after the battle with the weapon, Kirk's adventure with Scotty on the Constellation getting a 'dead' ship to come back to life to 'kill it's killer'...

and the poignant thought re a 'Doomsday weapon' from somebody's war countless years ago being a modern day menace (like old WW2 sea mines etc, that go on killing...)

...and our very own Doomsday weapon the 'old H Bomb' being used to destroy such a killing machine device

Had ST not already have got two Hugo awards I feel sure this episode would have won the award it was nominated for...

Yeah, it always was my favourite episode. Looking forward to seeing the reworked version. Seeing stars shine through the planet killer in the original was always a bit of an issue. IMHO the section where Kirk pilots the Constellation into the Planet Killer and struggles to beam up is the most exciting bit of Star Trek ever made.