|
Post by williammuirhead on Dec 22, 2016 8:05:08 GMT
New article in the last few hours from the Guardian (according to Google, at least): search engine description text includes 'Lost for decades, nine sketches from the series Not Only, But Also were recently found in a ...'
Not being a subscriber (perhaps I should be...) I can't access the article itself. Still, the terms 'nine sketches' and 'recently found' seem encouragingly specific. Anyone able to read the full article willing to provide further details?
|
|
|
Post by williammuirhead on Dec 10, 2016 3:15:18 GMT
Absolutely, RWels - thanks for amending that. It was based on the pre-doco PR stating mute NOBA clips had been restored using off-air soundtracks (and certainly 'The Tailor' extract sounded sketchy enough to indicate that was what happened) but I agreed it should have been better substantiated before being added to the Wiki.
|
|
|
Post by williammuirhead on Dec 7, 2016 2:53:09 GMT
Just to confirm the first fragment is indeed from 'On Music' (about halfway through) - unfortunately it doesn't include their subsequent discussion of the Munich Museum of Beethoven's Undies! And the other section is the very beginning of 'On Sex'.
Incidentally, I have all three NOBA records (one for each series) on vinyl - should really get around to ripping them. 'Once Moore With Cook' (from the second series) is totally brilliant.
|
|
|
Post by williammuirhead on Dec 1, 2016 3:44:11 GMT
Yep, 'The Tailor' (s01e03) and 'The Ad Lav Club' ('66 Xmas special), both featured in the doc.
|
|
|
Post by williammuirhead on Nov 28, 2016 10:00:04 GMT
Hi RWels, thank you for your response. Unfortunately I haven't heard the full audio tape of 1/5, so I'm not entirely sure about the 'Restaurant' sketch being an early version of 'Psuedolene' - or that it was, in fact, entirely on VT. Certainly I've never seen any first- or second-hand source suggesting it was on film, but it was indicated as studio in the old 'Publish and Bedazzled' (Cook fanzine) episode guide for the first series, and I believe Harry Thompson refers to it as being remade for an 'episode later made in Australia'.
I really like the Australian version - it's cruelty for the sake of cruelty, sure, but I think both Cook and Moore elevate the somewhat thin material. Though that's pretty much true of both of those episodes' sketches apart from 'Funnelweb Spiders'. I'm thrilled to hear more audio might exist of 1/7 - that and 1/5 are the two biggest mysteries of the entire series to those not entirely 'in the know', with both video and scripts no longer existing. I was only able to add 'Betting Agent' to the 1/5 sketch list because of Matthew K Sharp's research into Australian episode synopses; it definitely wasn't on the 'Pub & Bed' breakdown.
On the latter point, about the 'On the Bus' clip, you're almost certainly right. Somehow, I didn't see any mention of this clip reel online until the new doc, so assumed it was a new discovery. ('When you assume...' etc.) According to the Kaleidoscope comment thread I started on their Facebook about this, which you've probably seen, the other clips from otherwise missing sketches are all Dagenham Dialogues: 'On Disease', 'On Music' and 'On Sex'. They only run between 50 seconds and 1 min 25 secs apiece, but - just to clutch at straws - that at least means that some visual material now survives from all series one and two 'Pete and Duds' except 'Religions' and the 'Winter Holiday' opening to series two episode four.
|
|
|
Post by williammuirhead on Nov 19, 2016 10:00:03 GMT
Yep, that's right - at least according to Harry Thompson, but other comedy shows from the same year ('Likely Lads' etc) don't seem to have been party to the same policy, so it's possibly apocryphal.
Clearly, and rightly, those involved knew NOBA was something exceptional. It's just sad - as well as fortunate - that their personal efforts could only save so much.
And actually we're both right on Gilbert's contribution to saving the series three film material - it did exist post '70, apparently 'in a shoebox', though I'm not sure how the physics work there. The sequences were about to be junked, and Gilbert saved it by putting a later prog's budget into preserving it. Again, according to Thompson.
|
|
|
Post by williammuirhead on Nov 19, 2016 9:43:25 GMT
Haven't had time yet to watch it front to back, but I think we didn't get to see the S1E5 previously mute sketches, right? Pity; I had hoped for these: - Canvassing Dracula
- Smoking
- Restaurant
Sorry about the multiple posts, just found my login details after several year's absence and finally feel I have something to contribute! I'm a little frustrated that 'Restaurant' is listed as a mute film clip on this site, as it's apparently a transcription error taken from my episode guide [with reference to Publish and Bedazzled (Peter Cook fanzine); Postings on The Mausoleum Club; Missing Episodes.com and other sources]on the NOBA wikipedia page. There is no basis I'm aware of to suggest that any part of 'Restaurant' was recorded to film, and therefore survives as a mute clip - in fact, it seems to be an in-studio early version of 'Pseudolene', later recorded for and frequently excerpted from the Australian 'Not Onlys...'. Episodes Four and Seven of series one, despite their apparent reclamation as off-air audio recordings, remain largely a mystery in terms of content and sequencing. Four, which contains 'Restaurant', seems to have been - like the Sellers episode five - largely VT-based, including one almost entirely obscure sketch about a 'Betting Agent' wagering on the sinking of the Titanic (as revealed by Matthew K Sharp on the basis of Australian synopsis documents.)
|
|
|
Post by williammuirhead on Nov 19, 2016 9:23:23 GMT
Oh, and also mentioned in the Thompson Bio is that Jimmy Gilbert, producer of the third series, was responsible for the film material that does exist from Series Three still surviving, using his production budget from another programme to pay for the transfer. So thank to to Joe and Jimmy for their prescient preservation of some of the greatest comedy ever broadcast. Only a pity that Dick Clement was too busy being a comedy genius ('Likely Lads', 'Porridge' et al) to have done the same for series two, particularly episodes 5 & 6, going from the scripts and audio recordings possibly the greatest two half hours of TV comedy ever screened.
|
|
|
Post by williammuirhead on Nov 19, 2016 9:18:51 GMT
Yeah, I've always thought of the 'Tramponuns/Art Gallery' episode as series one, episode three thanks to Thompson's book, even though it was transmitted fourth of the series proper. I'm not sure if the pilot was actually screened - it appears that Cook, originally engaged as a lesser guest star (after Lennon et al) to assuage Moore's doubts about carrying a whole programme himself, made such an impact with his contributions that the whole concept of the show was quickly revised after recording. Cook/Moore parts of that pilot were then repurposed for inclusion the first two episodes of the transmitted series - 'Initials' and 'The Ravens' in episode one, 'A Spot of the Usual Trouble' and 'Painting on Television' in episode two. Interestingly, Thompson suggests that the 'big hit' (in everyone's eyes except for Tom Sloan's) of the pilot recording, 'Usual Trouble', was kept for the second episode to allow it to run at a greater length.
My impression from that book is that the pilot also survives in its original format - hopefully any DVD release of NOBA will include it as an extra.
|
|
|
Post by williammuirhead on Nov 19, 2016 9:05:37 GMT
Sorry ajsmith, apparently we just posted basically the same message! My understanding is that the 'On the Bus' extract is genuinely newly rediscovered, even if the ABC trailer reel dates back to the 60's. The rest does seem a little disingenuous, although as I noted on the Kaleidoscope page: 'To be fair, I believe the 'Boxer-cum-Painter' clip was described in Lewis-Smith's voice-over as being untransmitted on televison since its original broadcast, which is accurate.'
|
|
|
Post by williammuirhead on Nov 19, 2016 9:02:59 GMT
The NOBA clips were, in order of inclusion: 'Sir Arthur at the Tailor' (series one, episode three); 'Pete and Dud on the Bus' (series one, episode five); 'Boxer-cum-Painter' (series one, episode six); and, briefly, 'Tramponuns' (series one, episode four).
I was surprised to see the first of these presented in the context of a 'newly synched' sketch, as it has been extant in the BBC archive since at least the mid-nineties, along with the rest of Series One Episode Three. In fact, the first four episodes of NOBA were copied by producer/director Joe McGrath back in the sixties, which is why (along with the 2001 discovery of the Sellers ep in the US Libary of Congress) the first series is comparatively well represented.
The only genuinely new - or 'undiscovered' clip - is that final minute of 'Pete and Dud on the Bus'. To repeat a post I just put on the Kaleidoscope facebook page:
'Hoping someone can answer a new question raised by 'The Undiscovered Peter Cook' - does anyone know exactly what clips have been found in Australia from 'Not Only... But Also'? The doco featured extracts from 'Sit Arthur at the Tailor' (series one show three) - oddly, though framed in the context of rediscovered material, a sketch that's been held by the BBC since at least the early nineties - and 'Dud and Pete on the Bus' (series one show five), which wasn't previously known to exist even in part. I was expecting clips from the long-known mute film sequences from that episode ('Cigarette Advertising' and 'Canvassing Dracula'), newly joined to off-air soundtracks, so was thrilled to see part of not only a brand new sketch, but (on the basis of the published script) one of the greats. According to a poster on Roobarb's, this short section is all that was recovered from the sketch, from an ABC trailer reel - can anyone confirm, or advise of other extracts found?'
Any help from the posters here at missingepisodes.com?
|
|
|
Post by williammuirhead on Sept 21, 2015 22:24:25 GMT
I would say that's disappointing, but in the current context that seems more than a little ungrateful! Thanks again for the correction.
|
|
|
Post by williammuirhead on Sept 21, 2015 20:38:14 GMT
Ah, right - good to know. Sorry if I muddied the waters!
I had thought that 2.1 was now more-or-less complete, the long-missing "Joke Shop" sketch having been rediscovered (as a censor trim?) in Australia. And that 2.3 had been circulating as complete for a couple of decades now (I haven't seen it for ages, and probably wouldn't have noticed a missing break in any case). Happy to stand corrected!
|
|
|
Post by williammuirhead on Sept 21, 2015 9:59:56 GMT
Amazing news! I remember getting into archive comedy a good twenty years ago (a small fry to some of you, I know) and there being 3 complete episodes and the 5 comps in the archive. How far we've come.
To clarify from my understanding of the current position: the BFI refers to "11 complete episodes". One can assume - perhaps incorrectly, but considering 2.6 is now considered complete, having been missing about 50 seconds of non-credits material prior to this latest find - that 1.1 is missing only its end credits (which could presumably be reconstituted). Which would mean the two incomplete instalments are 1.2 (only 5 mins of material, basically the beginning of the episode, extant) and 2.7 (missing a few minutes at the end, including "The Rhubarb Tart Song"). So less than one episode's worth of material still missing all up. Hurrah!
And as regards the post above about a BFI DVD release, isn't the problem that the rights lie with a company which demonstrates very little interest in exploiting its ITV holdings for commercial purpose? I'm assuming these rights apply not only to the footage extant when they took ownership of the holdings, but any returned material subsequent to it - is anyone in a position to confirm/clarify this assessment?
|
|
|
Post by williammuirhead on Jan 3, 2012 20:04:33 GMT
Hi Stuart and Peter, Just to clarify: no, "Pete and Dud on the Bus" does not exist in vision, mute or otherwise (though I am thrilled to learn that the audio might). The only visual material extant for Episode 1.5 (the edition in question) are a few soundless film sequences, totalling around ten minutes. These include "Canvassing Dracula", a parody of cigarette advertising and the opening titles involving the words "Not Only... But Also" appearing on the back of a London bus... a piece of footage which led into the VT sketch "Pete and Dud on the Bus", hence the confusion. Since I frequently see these kind of questions and misunderstandings about NOBA's archive status popping up on these boards, can I please direct anyone interested to the episode/archive breakdown I contributed to the wiki page on the series: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_Only..._But_Also#EpisodesI believe it to be the most accurate and comprehensive guide available online.
|
|