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Post by johnforbes on Nov 15, 2013 9:04:52 GMT
Are any missing episodes, or stories so bad, that they are better off remaing "missing" ?
TFOS was considered that "pointless" "bad" by the BBC that it wasn't even offered for overseas sale.
And somehow, I have always had the gut feeling (from seeing the clips) that TUM is a bit too cringeworthy as well.
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Post by Rob Moss on Nov 15, 2013 9:26:17 GMT
Simple answer - no. Personally, I have very little interest in seeing any more of the Celestial Toymaker, but I'd still rather it existed.
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Post by Andrew Parker on Nov 15, 2013 9:32:08 GMT
Are any missing episodes, or stories so bad, that they are better off remaing "missing" ? TFOS was considered that "pointless" "bad" by the BBC that it wasn't even offered for overseas sale. And somehow, I have always had the gut feeling (from seeing the clips) that TUM is a bit too cringeworthy as well. You're incorrect. It was never considered pointless or bad. It was a unique episode for a specific time (being broadcast on christmas day) that the BBC felt was a bit silly to include in overseas sales since the buyers wouldn't be screening it on Christmas day. Therefore, it would stick out a bit in the middle of a fairly intensive Dalek thriller. I imagine Hartnell breaking the fourth wall and ad-libbing 'Merry Christmas' to everyone at home probably decided it for them as to an Australian audience watching it in the middle of the year would think 'What?' I don't think anyone really feels stuff should remain missing, there are of course stories and episodes that are generally much more highly sought after than others.If the Space Pirates turned up I suspect there would a lot of people wishing it was another Troughton story but we would still be pleased it was back since it would be one less missing story. |
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Post by Paul McDermott on Nov 15, 2013 9:38:58 GMT
Yep, I'd go along with that, Rob and Andrew.  There's stories from all eras of the show's history that really don't hit the spot for me. From Menoptera to Mestor and on into the current stuff, I'm sure I'm not alone.  But having them exist matters. For all kinds of reasons! Imagine how awful it'd be if things in the Archives got flung into the furnace on the basis of whether the flinger liked them!  Who knows what - if anything - is still out there to be found, and eventually returned. But you won't hear me grumbling if it's more Fish People and Space Pirates - or moaning that things I thought would rock turned out a bit less impressive than I'd hoped for.  97 eps, they all deserve to be returned, restored, remembered.  As Sutekh might have said between takes when shooting Oh Mummy!, "Your classic is my turkey"!  |
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Post by mattplace on Nov 15, 2013 9:51:42 GMT
Simple answer - no. Personally, I have very little interest in seeing any more of the Celestial Toymaker, but I'd still rather it existed. Im the opposite.. Id love to see more of Celestial Toymaker,liked the book, liked the recons.. had a "menace" to it.. Michael Gough was wonderfully menacing. Then again, I was happy when EOTW turned out to be so much more than i thought it could, so who knows.... maybe a "classic" could suck, maybe space pirates really is the "citizen Cane" of missing eps... Power of the daleks might be as well received as love and monsters was....tho im sure someone liked that episode too. |
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Post by Simon Jailler on Nov 15, 2013 10:21:19 GMT
Yep, I'd go along with that, Rob and Andrew. There's stories from all eras of the show's history that really don't hit the spot for me. From Menoptera to Mestor and on into the current stuff, I'm sure I'm not alone. But having them exist matters. For all kinds of reasons! Imagine how awful it'd be if things in the Archives got flung into the furnace on the basis of whether the flinger liked them! Who knows what - if anything - is still out there to be found, and eventually returned. But you won't hear me grumbling if it's more Fish People and Space Pirates - or moaning that things I thought would rock turned out a bit less impressive than I'd hoped for. 97 eps, they all deserve to be returned, restored, remembered. As Sutekh might have said between takes when shooting Oh Mummy!, "Your classic is my turkey"! With you on much of the current Tmey Wimey stuff, Paul. The Zarbi are pretty terrible but I still love The Web Planet. The main villain in that story reminds me so much of the Great Intelligence. |
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Post by Greg H on Nov 15, 2013 10:27:20 GMT
Simple answer - no. Personally, I have very little interest in seeing any more of the Celestial Toymaker, but I'd still rather it existed. I am in agreement with that really. Some of the season 3 stuff doesn't hold that much of a high place in my personal list and celestial toymaker is overall not a favourite. I can't say I am glad any of it is gone though. I can't personally get through either the reign of terror or the gunfighters, not to say I would see them junked though. Swapping them for something better..... well that's a probably The underwater menace is a reasonable story, it's never going to make my top ten but it is alright! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 10:45:25 GMT
With one or two individual exceptions, series 3 has always seemed to me to be Hartnell's weakest generally too and so I'm pleased that it's his first two seasons which are virtually intact, with his third season being the patchy era in the archives (I'd hate for it to be the other way round). So anything from that period wouldn't enthuse me unduly if it suddenly turned up and was released on DVD! Having said that, I welcome anything back to the archives with open arms. It's seasons 4 and 5 recoveries which would mainly get me excited though! Underwater Menace, while it's never going to be an all-time classic, has gone up in my estimation a lot since having seen the recovered episode at the NFT when it was unveiled. It's a much stronger installment than the one which already survived (although that isn't saying a lot! ). |
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Post by Vaughan Stanger on Nov 15, 2013 10:51:11 GMT
Based on The Enemy of the World I'd say it's unwise to judge the merits of a story from a single surviving episode, or the audio, or a reconstruction...
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Post by Andrew Parker on Nov 15, 2013 10:57:19 GMT
After watching the recon for the Myth Makers I'd really like this story to be found.
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Post by mattplace on Nov 15, 2013 11:08:58 GMT
I think that "the final test" is not the strongest Celestial Toymaker episode...
Id still love to see anything returned.
Season 3 gets weaker as it nears the end.. war machines is not one of my favorites(bar Polly and Ben) I still think we need more steven taylor back in the archives!!
Season 4 and 5 .. from what i have seen... is clearly a series highpoint and anything else discovered would be welcomed with opened arms.(esp season 4- not 1 complete story... really under represented)
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Post by simonashby on Nov 15, 2013 11:21:42 GMT
No. Enemy was not that high on my wanted list, but now having seen both that and Web, I prefer it to Web.
As already stated, UWM may never be a gem, but with Episode 2 now it certainly looks to be a more enjoyable jaunt than anyone had previously suggested.
If you haven't seen it, then I don't think it's possible to truly judge.
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Post by Andrew Parker on Nov 15, 2013 11:31:54 GMT
(esp season 4- not 1 complete story... really under represented) Only 10 out 43 episodes survive, even if a couple of stories returned it would still be half under represented. |
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Nov 15, 2013 12:16:22 GMT
I would keep ALL the bad stories-The Gunfighters,Space Museum because they seemed to have had a concerted effort given to them and came out with an end-product which just happened to be crap.The one I would destroy with is truly appalling is Edge of Destruction.That is just embarrassing and had it not been for the Daleks preceeding it,would have ended the series.But whilst we're at it,why stop at the B/W era?I would junk 3/4 of the Davison era and most of the Baker and McCoy runs.Sorry.
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Post by Simon Jailler on Nov 15, 2013 12:16:38 GMT
I've always wanted to see The Savages and The Smugglers, just to see if they live up to the telesnaps but it's season 4 and 5 plus the DMP I live in hope of seeing more of. I'd happily swap The Gunfighters,The Space Museum and The Chase for some still lost episodes.
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