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Post by Paul Rumbol on Oct 15, 2013 10:07:24 GMT
Whilst those stalwart chaps from KAL are fighting the good fight in darkest Africa, loyal fans in the home guard back here in Britain need to demonstrate some initiative while newspaper presses are running hot and 'Who Fever' reaches its crescendo over November/December.
A more bold and enterprising strategy is called for. My proposal is simple: offer money. Imagine the tabloid headlines: 'Who fans raised the bar this week by offering £5000 in return for lost episodes".
I say £5k but it could be £10k, in which case a celebrity coming forward pledging the lions share at this time would be a godsend and really boost the appeal. Someone ringing the Daily Mail news desk today with that offer will make it into print tomorrow guaranteed - but it would add more weight as a collective.
My reasoning behind this is that if there are any rogue remaining lost episodes in this country, they are probably by now in the hands of dealers/traders. As these guys only speak one language- MONEY- let's talk to them in the lingo they understand, get our hands grubby and offer them some. If nothing else a guerdon would act as a lure,flushing out and revealing who, if anyone is hoarding, and open up fresh avenues for investigation.
I do consider this is the optimum time for action. If no celebrity knight in shining armour is forthcoming, it's left to us troops on the ground. But the task looks achievable to me - 50 members each pledging £100 - not a lot is it?
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Post by Richard Tipple on Oct 15, 2013 10:15:31 GMT
I know many, many dealers and collectors and you're accusation that they ''only speak one language- MONEY'' is ridiculous. They are often more interested in returning what they see as 'heritage' than you're average Joe looking for a quick buck. I know collectors who have returned missing television for little or no thanks, but they know it's the right thing to do and they want to share. this stereotype as film collectors as hoarders, in my experience, simply isn't true. As recently as last month I found a collector with Doctor Who and we sat down and screened our prints and it was fantastic. Funnily enough, Web was one of the prints!
By offering money you're opening up a whole can of worms.. what if Collector A gets paid £5,000 for Toymaker 2.. and then turns up again with Toymaker 1, demanding another £5,000 fee? Or another collector says ''If he get's £5,000 for Toymaker2, I want £50,000 for TP4 or Power1."
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Post by Paul Rumbol on Oct 15, 2013 10:32:17 GMT
You miss the point. The purpose of this exercise reveals who is holding.
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Post by Paul McDermott on Oct 15, 2013 10:35:48 GMT
Better placed folk than I can speak at length on this one, as Richard has done. But at first glance, I really think this is a recipe for trouble, a distraction and a rod for people's backs that will not help a jot in getting things done as they should be.  Once you go down this road, all it seems to me one is doing is encouraging people to actually hold onto and trade film in secret, regardless of heritage and preservation concerns.  Say you offer X GBP per can. Joe Collector finds he has some in an old trunk in the attic. He's about to call up the toll-free number, and thinks that maybe he can get a better deal. Someone with only slightly deeper pockets is sure to offer it, if you okay this as the way to go about it. Because he thinks if he holds onto it a little longer, you'll get more desperate, and offer more.  Who will that help?  The contents of the cans are surely delicate and possibly unique. I think this is a Russian roulette style approach to discovery and conservation of lost works, more likely to do harm than good.  And if it's a sting operation to find who's hoarding, you might as well just give up on the whole enterprise.  Trust matters. As does respect. You get back what you give out, and this will only lower the perception of film collectors and others to the enterprise, that the effort is about nicking folk. Really, I can't think of a good angle to any of this, at all...  |
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Post by Marty Schultz on Oct 15, 2013 10:45:06 GMT
You miss the point. The purpose of this exercise reveals who is holding. For what purpose? |
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Post by Paul McDermott on Oct 15, 2013 10:52:04 GMT
An afterthought: I'm reminded of the modus operandi in old Alexandria. You turn up, you're searched for books. Got any we don't have in the library? Thanks for the gift mate, we'll give you a copy in due course.  There really isn't any way in Britain - or I suspect, anywhere else anyone would want to live - to reproduce such a system for sniffing out lost/missing/hidden film. Even if the appartatus of State could be diverted to this end (yeah, militarizing the Arts budget - oh, my sides), I'm reminded of the line of Princess Leia to Governor Tarkin: The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers. The technocratic zealot (such a short supply these days) will love it, but there's no worse way to preserve culture or fund the arts than by such monstrous, wasteful and stupid means.  |
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Post by Rob Moss on Oct 15, 2013 11:45:49 GMT
Whilst those stalwart chaps from KAL are fighting the good fight in darkest Africa, Whilst the good chaps in Kaleidoscope are indeed fighting the good fight, it's important to point out that they are not doing so in Africa, to the best of my knowledge. |
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Post by cjones on Oct 15, 2013 11:52:28 GMT
This idea of offering money for eps is not new, and has cropped up several times. I thought it over, and came up with my version of it here: missingepisodes.proboards.com/thread/7868/idea-opinions-welcomeAs can be seen, the consensus was against it, with a particular concern that it would split fandom - something we should avoid at all costs. |
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Post by briancook on Oct 15, 2013 12:01:14 GMT
whilst the mertis are good the fact remains that its dangerous to approach anyone offering money in such a way. I deal and collect a certain book, I have experience of how a market can be affected by events and would advise avoiding mention of money. as has been stated you run the risk of pushing things underground even more.
if I may use a football analogy. club 'A' has an excellent player who club 'A' feel is *worth* £10 million. Club 'B' offer £8 million plus a proven player; club 'C' offer £7 million as a best offer. Club 'C' then get taken over by a rich new owner and the press find that club 'C' are now very rich. club 'A' put a counter offer in of £15 million. Club 'C' realising they may miss out on the player are forced to accept the higher offer as club 'B''s player is of similar talent to one who has just arrived from abroad.
in other words never mention money!
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Post by Alan Hayes on Oct 15, 2013 12:11:53 GMT
Money will only work for missing material with commercial possibilities. The trouble is that if you pay for the items that you think you can sell, collectors will want money for things that you can't sell, and those items will not be returned to their proper place.
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Post by Alan Hayes on Oct 15, 2013 12:12:52 GMT
As can be seen, the consensus was against it, with a particular concern that it would split fandom - something we should avoid at all costs. Have you looked at fandom recently? Not exactly sweetness and light. Factions everywhere. |
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Post by Andrew Parker on Oct 15, 2013 12:40:47 GMT
Have you looked at fandom recently? Not exactly sweetness and light. Factions everywhere. Like Red Kangs and Blue Kangs. |
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Post by Dan S on Oct 15, 2013 13:44:15 GMT
Has there ever been any evidence than any episodes have ever been in the hands of hoarders?
Within the last few years with the advent of sites like youtube it would be so easy for a hoarder to point a mobile phone at their screen and film a couple of minutes of an episode (to prove it exists) and throw it on youtube then they could sit back and ENJOY the reaction. This has never happened. And for that reason I don't believe any episodes are in the hands of hoarders.
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Post by Paul Rumbol on Oct 15, 2013 14:56:39 GMT
I resurrected this idea because the press is currently abuzz with anything 'Who' and it pays dividends to strike while the iron is hot.
Many here embroiled in 'Whodom' should look outside the box and see how Joe Public perceive the BBC. If the BBC are willing to pay £25,000 for Myleene Klass to host a 10 minute lottery show and illegally hand out million pound retirement pay-offs to their executive chums, then they can jolly well cough up and reward someone who has expended perhaps years tracking down and clinching the purchase of a long lost show. I agree Myleene Klass is nothing to do with this debate, but it's all to do with public perception.
In the past the corporation has treated collectors like peasants flouting copyright law. It was very officious and highhanded in its manner and it left a sour taste in the mouth which prevails to this day. £5000 is crumbs to the BBC but would be significant in making that first appreciative gesture to recognize the efforts of fans and collectors over the years.
Of course the BBC will never offer money hence the post suggesting we take up the mantle.
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Post by cjones on Oct 15, 2013 16:21:31 GMT
As can be seen, the consensus was against it, with a particular concern that it would split fandom - something we should avoid at all costs. Have you looked at fandom recently? Not exactly sweetness and light. Factions everywhere. Quite - but I was referring to this one issue. |
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