|
|
Post by cjones on Oct 9, 2012 12:47:17 GMT
How's about this? It's an idea that plays the long game, and with no guarantee of return, but it has some obvious advantages.
A society is founded - the 'Doctor Who Lost Episodes Society' or some such. There are no paper newsletters; everything is done online to save posting/admin costs (which presumably will be close to zero if the websites/forums are run by volunteers).
Every member pays a yearly £10 membership, which goes into a central pot, and stays there. So: 200 members = £2,000 per annum. (I note there are over 100 members of this forum, and surely the DWAS could be counted on for a mere hundred more.) The word goes out that this money will go to the first person who returns a missing DW episode. No-one will care very much to begin with, but in five years, £10,000 will be waiting for the lucky finder; after ten years, £20,000. (And, obviously, £40,000 in twenty years (looking at it with a long perspective!).
The advantage of this is not only that it spreads the layout for a lost episode, but also that large amounts of money on offer concentrates minds in a way that few other things do - it would, after a while, be its own publicity, as collectors etc. become aware of it and tell everyone they know.
(I must admit to feeling uneasy about the idea of accruing so much money to pay for what is in truth a decades-old show of interest only to fans! - it seems like such a large amount could be put to better use for charitable purposes. What price cultural heritage? (I suppose that's an argument for another thread.))
Anyway: thoughts?
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard Tipple on Oct 9, 2012 13:15:10 GMT
I like it. A good idea, but we'd need a trustworthy treasurer!
Take my money!
|
|
|
|
Post by Ash Stewart on Oct 9, 2012 13:51:20 GMT
It's a variation on an old theme; but I think this is probably the best version of this idea I've yet seen. The notion of fans contributing to a fund isn't in itself new, but the notion that there's a scoiety behind it, with its own newsletters/forum is one I've not heard before. Would some of the money be used as running costs for the society, or would all money accrued stay in a big pot?
There would certainly need to be some safeguards in respect of the accrued money, who has access to it and so on. Also, in respect of who said money legally "belongs" to, I would think.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rob Moss on Oct 9, 2012 14:23:59 GMT
Of course, there's the risk that if a hypothetical hoarder got wind of the society's existence, he might decide to hang on a bit longer to get more cash. If more than one hoarder tried to play each other off, it could actually prevent them coming forward. And what happens if (shock, horror) there really are no more episodes out there..?
I think the trouble is, once you start bringing the idea of financial rewards into the equation, you throw up all sorts of potential problems...
|
|
|
|
Post by John Wall on Oct 9, 2012 14:29:21 GMT
Based on the recent recoveries, the best prospects for the future are collectors who don't know they've got something missing.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2012 15:56:45 GMT
...or invent a time machine!
|
|
|
|
Post by cjones on Oct 9, 2012 16:38:34 GMT
Of course, there's the risk that if a hypothetical hoarder got wind of the society's existence, he might decide to hang on a bit longer to get more cash. If more than one hoarder tried to play each other off, it could actually prevent them coming forward. And what happens if (shock, horror) there really are no more episodes out there..? I think the trouble is, once you start bringing the idea of financial rewards into the equation, you throw up all sorts of potential problems... The first point could be ameliorated to some extent by capping the money (at, say, £10k or £15k, which is still surely enough to turn heads, and massively outstrips what any sane collector would be willing to pay for a print). Re: the second point - I'm not sure I follow. I'd imagine one hoarder would simply undercut the other. (And if the '£10k cap' idea is implemented, there'd be a maximum period of five years before the total was reached.) If a hoarder did come forward with his episode - thus putting off his hypothetical friend - there'd be nothing to stop the society simply starting the saving process all over again. Indeed, the initial success would surely validate the concept. Re: the third point - what to do if there are no more episodes? I don't know. Keep the cash for a few more years? Give it to charity? Put it into recolourisation of the b/w Pertwees?... ;D |
|
|
|
Post by Jaspal Cheema on Oct 9, 2012 17:08:00 GMT
And the number of potential hoaxers would increase 1000 fold...we think we have problems now (just the number of threads relating to hoax leads on this very forum is testament to that!),just imagine how many would crop up once a financial incentive was made available!Someone or other from this site would be spending cold winter mornings trudging around car boot sales looking for The Moonbase episode 1....!So no,NO money pots in my opinion,why the hell pay for mistakes made by the BBC in the first place?  |
|
|
|
Post by cjones on Oct 9, 2012 17:30:27 GMT
Good points. But consider:
1) Right now there is an audience for lost DW. Recent sales of *existing* prints on Ebay show that people have paid £1,000-£2,000 (IIRC) for Hartnells and Troughtons.
2) There are many DW fans who would pay far more than that, in fact, *anything*, for lost DW, but DW fans cannot afford to pay wild amounts of money. In fact, I doubt anyone could outstrip the £10-15k figure mentioned above.
So: the society would be any hoarder's best bet for making cash. Anyone wanting to screw the society over for more money - along the lines of 'You want this at £15k? - offer me £20k and let's talk... (Six months later) Did I say £20k? - you could get more than that...' etc. etc. - would be aware of the fact that the society was the only buyer, and that they'd better play ball.
How would we stop them not driving to drive the price up in spite of that fact? Simple - make the society a charitable organisation with a constitution prohibiting it from offering more than a set amount for any given episode. Any attempt at driving the price up could then be met by the response that the society cannot act in an unconstitutional manner.
As regards hoaxers, they can hoax all they like - that's the beauty of this idea. The trouble at this point is that individuals - especially those who want to believe in the existence of something - are credulous, whereas a society isn't, and furthermore, if it is offering money for the return of old eps, it can dictate the ways in which people make representations to it. A society (as opposed to some ad hoc fans' fund) would have the ability to lay out their ground rules very clearly, which they would then be bound by, on penalty of acting in an unconstitutional manner. Something like:
'1. The Society refuses to consider any respondant's claim without
a) proof of possession of the material in the form of a substantial excerpt of footage; or
b) proof of possession of the material in the form of a number of sequential frames from the title sequence, the credits (including cast), and at least three separate scenes.'
Any hoaxer who responds with, 'I'm not doing that. Don't you want The Macra Terror, then?' would get a wry smile, a shrug of the shoulders, and the following rejoinder: 'Don't you want ten grand, then?'
|
|
|
|
Post by Jaspal Cheema on Oct 9, 2012 17:54:37 GMT
Are you a lawyer by any chance???
|
|
|
|
Post by cjones on Oct 9, 2012 18:04:22 GMT
Nope! But I am (like many on here) sick of how ready people are to embark on wild goose chases after people who don't have anything. The society idea solves that problem in almost every permutation.
Take the 'DW episode in house clearance shop' hoax perpetrated earlier this year. With a society in place, we would not now be debating whether or not the story was true, because if it was, the poster who drew it to our attention would have bought it then and there to claim their cash, and if it wasn't, nothing would happen. The circumstance in which someone said something existed somewhere and knew where it was, but didn't share that information, would not arise, or if it did, we'd know instantly that they were lying. (Unless they are hoarding it themselves and have no need of money, in which case we're screwed no matter what we do.)
|
|
|
|
Post by John Wall on Oct 9, 2012 18:10:31 GMT
Wasn't that "hoax" someone who claimed to have seen an episode of The Daleks in a shop in York ? Or was there another one I missed ? That wasn't, of course, a missing episode but might have been "better" than the one currently in the archives. How much do you pay for that ? Then there's the episode of The Romans that Paul found in the collection of someone who'd died. There have been a few Dr Who prints either turn up or be "reported" recently but only two were missing - and they were made available for scanning without any trouble.
|
|
|
|
Post by cjones on Oct 9, 2012 18:15:07 GMT
Yes, York was the one I meant. I don't know how much you'd pay for
a) a better-quality version of something that exists;
b) clips;
c) off-telly 8mm.
These questions would have to be resolved by the society, but I don't think they invalidate the concept.
As you say, one would hope someone would make such material available to scan for free. Still, a financial incentive would grease the wheels, would it not?
|
|
|
|
Post by John Wall on Oct 9, 2012 18:21:34 GMT
I can't think of anything that's been returned in recent years that would have been helped by money. The problem with "hoarders" - and it's a double edged argument - is that there are no, reasonable, rumours (if that's not an oxymoron !) of missing material in such a collection. Obviously, the counter argument is that a serious hoarder would keep it quiet ! Film Collecting seems to be a reasonably expensive hobby so would anyone with a missing episode want/need £10k ?
|
|
|
|
Post by Steven Sigel on Oct 9, 2012 18:26:10 GMT
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not do this.. It will make it much harder for people to recover and return material because everyone will start thinking that there's a huge value to the films they have. So far EVERY Dr. Who episode that has been found in private hands has been loaned back to the BBC with no financial recompense. Let's try to keep it that way.
Furthermore - you are asking for a big legal can of worms setting up something like this. For instance, what happens to the money if no films are found in 5 years or 10 years or 20 years? Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
|
|
